So....here are my thoughts

[CollegePanther]

the problem is most NFL teams can say the same thing.

Except for Jacksonville.

[rayzor]

I found it interesting that Don Gregory hired a completely new staff of scouts last year. Their first draft together was the 2012 draft. This is interesting because we are all looking at the draft as a complete success. If we can keep this staff together for a few years, we could be striking gold.

this is a very good point.

if this past draft is what we should be expecting from this scouting department now rather than just an exception to our norm, then i feel REALLY good about the future of this team.

i want to win now...but i'm one of the very few patient people who doesn't have to have it all right now. i can wait if i have faith in what is being built for the long haul. i do expect progress, tho, and the only thing that bugs me this season is that i haven't seen it from the team when it absolutely should have been there and there is no reason for it to not be.

[ladypanther]

It does start at the top. Richardson I think might do some behind the scenes "Jerry Jonesing." I think Hurney has worn out his welcome. His choices in contract extensions alone should have him gone. Couple that with draft blunders, and it's amazing he has a job at all in the NFL.

I found it interesting that Don Gregory hired a completely new staff of scouts last year. Their first draft together was the 2012 draft. This is interesting because we are all looking at the draft as a complete success. If we can keep this staff together for a few years, we could be striking gold.

The coaching I have a problem with. Rivera is doing ok, and could get better on tough calls. McDermott is doing surprisingly well with this defense (we have no safeties, not his fault). Chud is pissing me off tremendously. He's gotten arrogant, and he's failing. Go back to what works, and stash the cute poo, dumbass. The position coaches might be even more under scrutiny. I actually think the linebackers coach and the secondary coach (safeties) should be fired after the season. Period. The linebackers are constantly out of position (getting better, but it was awful), and the safeties should compensate their lack of talent with fundamentals and good positioning. It took Rivera seeing Haruki lining up like he was still in Baltimore to realize his coach has not corrected him. That's a problem.

All in all I do believe Rivera can right this ship. I love his attitude and his drive. He's extremely intelligent and intricate on the defensive side of the ball, and that will benefit this team in the future. Cam will get better, but it's going to take Chud coming down to earth in order to put Cam in better position to make plays. We won't finish with a winning record, but this team will improve.

The scout thing is very interesting. Had not heard that before. They are off to a good start.

I like your optimism in the last paragraph. To keep from losing this fanbase...some of this improvement needs to come in the Cowboys game.

[ladypanther]

I couldn't agree more.

Tell Sarena Williams that she cant actually hit more than a dozen balls a week in practice and see how quickly her dominance falls off. Tackling is like any other skill in the game, it needs to be practiced at full speed or the techniques needed begin to deteriorate. I think in the long run the limits are going to have the opposite of their intended effect only instead of guys getting hurt in practice or not recovering between games the increase in injury will come during games as poor technique is replace by out of control brute force.

My first reaction to this......all the other teams are playing with the same restrictions.

[XClown1986]

The scout thing is very interesting. Had not heard that before. They are off to a good start.

I like your optimism in the last paragraph. To keep from losing this fanbase...some of this improvement needs to come in the Cowboys game.

I honestly didn't know until today when Cat Scratch Reader released this:

http://www.derp/2012/10/12/3492794/carolina-panthers-2011-draft-revisiting-the-class

I'm optimistic, but I'm losing patience as well. Definitely need to see something tangible in the Cowboys game to hold on to.

[Proudiddy]

Good post and great perspective LP.

I'm sure you at times feel I'm overly negative, especially in the game chat LP, but I'd imagine you get me by now.

I love this team just as I love a member of my family. For better or for worse, they are a part of me... So, I take it hard when we suck because I feel it is a reflection on me. Sometimes joking is the best way to deal with disappointment or hurt. Sometimes, just spouting off the worst outcome possible before each play lessens the pain when we fail.

That being said, just as you said there are games that Rivera can't be held responsible for, there are SEVERAL that decisions he made DID directly affect the outcome negatively for us.

As CRA said, he has proven to be a poor game manager. I still have no idea how the power dynamics work between he and the coordinators but there is more than enough evidence to suggest he gives them free reign during games and simply handles the "head coaching" decisions (go for it or punt, timeout, etc.). This isn't good. Especially considering if this is the case, he has struggled the most in those few responsibilities he has.

Last year I hated it, but I had to chalk it up as him learning on the job - despite not remembering another rookie HC doing anything nearly as stupid - the wasted timeouts before halftime last year that resulted in us not getting a FG before half in one game stands out. He took full blame for that.

The "part of the plan" approach before half against the Falcons this year...

Not going for the win instead of trying not to lose each game. And the 4th down bootleg we ran against the Hawks was a horrible decision. A coach should know the situation and what are his odds/percentages. In 4th and 1 situations, are conversion rate has been remarkable with Cam at QB. So the punt against the Falcons and then allowing Chud to "get cute" against the Hawks on 4th and 1 or 4th and goal at the 1 were just retarded and show a complete lack of understanding of the situation and personnel.

Additionally, all of the "failures" people are pinning on our personnel are irrational in my mind because it all goes back to coaching. Yes, we can subscribe to the old adage, "it's about the Joes, not the Xs and Os," or however it goes. But, IMO, are "Joes" would rank about midway up the ranking in terms of talent fielded across the board and averaged out. Offensively, we'd be top half of the league... So, the amount of failures we are experiencing are a direct result of coaching, or lack thereof. Too many bad playcalls, no rhythm, not knowing the situation or respecting it, and putting our players in a position to fail all have resulted in just that... Failure.

I hate that it has already come to this because I naturally pulled for Rivera for multiple reasons I've discussed before AND simply b/c he was our HC. But, he has made it painfully obvious that he is outmatched every week. It sucks to have already come to this realization after such a short amount of time, but at least we know and are able to move forward sooner rather than later. I have to approach the rest of the season believing he is not the guy... If he can miraculously turn it around and lead us on a win streak that leaves us at 7 wins or better, I may reconsider, but I highly doubt it.

He seems like a great guy... And admirable human being... Just not a very good coach.

[rayzor]

It sucks to have already come to this realization after such a short amount of time, but at least we know and are able to move forward sooner rather than later.

here's the dilemma you have with this mindset....you may be sure of this and are ready to move on "sooner rather than later", but as much as people might call for it i hope you realize that rivera won't be going anywhere for another 2-3 years.

there is no "moving forward" at the moment.

what you do with that is up to you and you alone. you might be better off trying to be more open minded and giving him more time because the alternate is for you to spend the duration of rivera's tenure pissed off.

it's all a matter of perspective.

[ladypanther]

Good post and great perspective LP.

I hate that it has already come to this because I naturally pulled for Rivera for multiple reasons I've discussed before AND simply b/c he was our HC. But, he has made it painfully obvious that he is outmatched every week. It sucks to have already come to this realization after such a short amount of time, but at least we know and are able to move forward sooner rather than later. I have to approach the rest of the season believing he is not the guy... If he can miraculously turn it around and lead us on a win streak that leaves us at 7 wins or better, I may reconsider, but I highly doubt it.

He seems like a great guy... And admirable human being... Just not a very good coach.

First....thanks for the nice comment.

I agree Rivera has made many mistakes. I may be where you are after the next game. I am willing to give him 1 more game before I get there. His ability to assess and make the necessary corrections is the test. He obviously did that has a D coordinator. The bye week is his chance to prove he has it as a head coach. I hope it is his moment. It would be really cool to do it against the Cowboys.

[Proudiddy]

here's the dilemma you have with this mindset....you may be sure of this and are ready to move on "sooner rather than later", but as much as people might call for it i hope you realize that rivera won't be going anywhere for another 2-3 years.

there is no "moving forward" at the moment.

what you do with that is up to you and you alone. you might be better off trying to be more open minded and giving him more time because the alternate is for you to spend the duration of rivera's tenure pissed off.

it's all a matter of perspective.

Sadly, I've already relegated myself to this. I can even understand the "three-year" plan approach with any head coach. But, I really do feel he has shown that he's in over his head to a degree that suggests there is no significant improvement possible.

Regardless, as I said in the above post, I'm stuck with this team win or lose. I love them... I just wish I was stuck with more winning than losing.

I really hope he does prove me wrong, but I doubt he will. And I was hoping for the "sooner rather than later" outcome in seeing change because for all the good that Foxy did here, once it went bad and we all realized it, management's handling of the situation only made it worse and a more sour experience for us as the fans.

[raleigh-panther]

My issue is not that our expectations of this team and it's 23 year old QB were not realistic.

My issue is that time and time again, when it mattered, the Panthers eitther did not compete or have looked totally unprepared to play and it does not matter the coach or the season.

There are teams this year with more injuries to starters and more legitimate reasons to perform poorly than they do.

There are teams with far less talent than their opponents that find passion even if for a night to upset an opponent.

Not the Panthers. When is the last time the Panthers upset anyone? They have made a habit as an organization of making bottom feeders look like HOF candidates.

I said it before, it's not that they lose it is how they lose and it never changes.

Not trying to be a 'debbide downer' here but I will not make excuses anymore. They are a bad team and if organizations are judged as bad based on wins and loses, they are a bad organization.

Will I be at the game next Sunday against the Cowboys and staying over dropping more money in Charlotte, yes, I will be; but, I have come to terms with myself like a few other PSL owners that 15 years, 11 of which are mediocre is just not enough to buy PSLs again.

I don't ask much. I just ask for millionaire professional football players to look like Garner HS could not beat them.

[ForMac]

Are we mathematically eliminated from the playoffs? A: No, SUPERBOWL!

[DeeJay]

Looking back at the 2012 draft class our defense so far has some nice additions. Luke,Alexander,

2013 #1 Cornerback

rest of the picks = offense.

We need to win 11 straight

[Achilles]

Can we all just admit that we are still rebuilding after the 2010 dismantling of the John Fox era teams. We lost more than just 8-9 starters. We lost on-field leadership. These new guys are potentially more talented than past teams, but they are so inexperienced that essentially, we can't close out games in which we lead.

Cam has all the talent in the world, and a HUGE personality...but he's simply not ready to be a player leader. Until he is ready...there will be something missing on this offense. Same goes for Kuechly. He is the future at MLB for sure, but he's not an on field leader. I for one really like Norman, but again, he's too young to be a team leader. Silatolu and Bell...same story.

Likewise, for whatever reason, I don't see energy and passion from: Gross, Kalil (now IR), Smitty, Beason, Godfrey, Gamble, D-Lo, Etc.

None of these players has seemed to take the reigns and help shape this team's identity.

Rivera is partially to blame for this because any good coach knows that he has to delegate some leadership responsibilities to the players. I don't see this happening and I think it could be an important ingredient that this team is missing.

Player leadership is essential for a winning organization. Besides the obvious failings of the GM/HC, OC, and DC, this issue is potentially partly to blame for our dismal showing.

Maybe we could have gotten up off the mat after that heartbreaking loss to ATL with some stronger player leadership, instead it seemed to be the nail in the coffin for this team's confidence.

[Guest Tom Cat]

My assumption is that you do not care that I think your response is disgusting.

Surely you know you are on a chat board comprised of a high percentage of mental midgets and then you have those who follow the mental midgets giggling like complete imbeciles. Next time your response to him should be something along the lines of, I bet your moobs are bigger than my boobs so why dont you show all of us them?