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Why do you need to give a coach three years to prove himself?

Cyberjag

By Cyberjag,
in Carolina Panthers

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Cyberjag Newbie

Cyberjag

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Very simply put, there is much for new coaches to learn. I promise Rivera will coach better next year due to what he has learned.

A new head coach doesn't mean instant improvement.

Enjoy the pie, hit the wrong button :)

So anyway, new head coach may not mean instant improvement, but it usually does when you have a mediocre coach and you hire a better one.

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

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Rivera by and large made the same kind mistakes in close game situations this year than he did last year.

Of course we're going to win when we jump to 30 point leads before the 4th quarter. However, this doesn't answer the question of how good is Rivera's team when the chips are down. He still hasn't shown the requisite decision making competency I need to see from him to have any confidence in him and we're at the tail end of year 2.

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panther4life Community Regular

panther4life

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Theres are 19 current head coaches in the NFL who started in 2010 or before. This means they had 2 full seasons minimum. Of those 19 only 4 failed to win at least 8 games in their first 2 years. Below are the 4 listed.

Chan Gailey(15-30 overall as Bills head coach)

Jim Schwartz(22-40 overall as Lions head coach)

Pete Carroll(23-23 as head coach of Seahawks)

Mike Shannahan((19-27 overall as Skins head coach)

Pat Shurmur

Jim Harbaugh

Mike Munchack

Leslie Frazier(2010 interim)

Jason Garret(2010 interim)

Hue Jackson

John Fox

are all the head coaches who started their first full year in 2011 like Rivera, only Shurmur has yet to make it to 8 wins yet.

So thats a total of 5 coaches out of the 26 (6 first year coaches are still tbd)in the leauge who could not get their team to 8 wins within the first 2 years. That puts Rivera in very bad company. Rivera has made many decisions that have cost this team wins, I swear the team prevailed in spite of him vs because of him more in our 12 wins under him thus far.

As for the teams late season surge, I don't lend that much credence as we did the same thing last year, only to start this year 1-6, then 2-8.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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Rivera by and large made the same kind mistakes in close game situations this year than he did last year.

Of course we're going to win when we jump to 30 point leads before the 4th quarter. However, this doesn't answer the question of how good is Rivera's team when the chips are down. He still hasn't shown the requisite decision making competency I need to see from him to have any confidence in him and we're at the tail end of year 2.

same here.
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panther4life Community Regular

panther4life

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And oh yea as for giving him time to learn you guys do realize against head coaches with as much or less experience than him his record is

In 2011

Munchack beat him his 1st year

Frazier beat him his 1st year

Romeo Crennell beat him in his 1st year with Chiefs

In 2012(Riveras 2nd year)

Schiano beat him twice his first year with Tampa

Fox beat him in his 2nd year with Denver

Garrett beat him in his 2nd year with Dallas

The only rookie head coach he has beat was New Orleans Interim's Interim head coach.

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davos Grand Master

davos

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We were 3-8, had shown little improvements and lost to the Chiefs.

At 3-9 we were clearly out of it and then he got aggressive, more animated on the sidelines, and all of a sudden the team was playing with nothing to lose. In response to this, add on Cam playing flawlessly, we've won two games and looked damn good doing it. The question is if you think Rivera will shrivel back up to his ways at the start of next year or maintain what we've been doing if you're thinking about retaining the guy. I'm up in the air because he seems like a good guy, the locker room is behind him, and he doesn't actually seem lik an idiot and rather a guy who can learn from his mistakes and build a squad.

That's the dilemma for the new GM and if he thinks Rivera can coach with nothing to lose, I think he stays. Tell him he has to win, it's year 3. Winning season or go home imo in this scenario. Not bad though because he'll have nothing to lose starting week 1 in this situation regardless of the GM.

So given this, I'm not against retaining him but I'm seriously interested in what other guys could do with Cam, Kraken, Chuck and Keek.

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jarhead Newbie

jarhead

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And oh yea as for giving him time to learn you guys do realize against head coaches with as much or less experience than him his record is

In 2011

Munchack beat him his 1st year

Frazier beat him his 1st year

Romeo Crennell beat him in his 1st year with Chiefs

In 2012(Riveras 2nd year)

Schiano beat him twice his first year with Tampa

Fox beat him in his 2nd year with Denver

Garrett beat him in his 2nd year with Dallas

The only rookie head coach he has beat was New Orleans Interim's Interim head coach.

Well if this is the criteria then yes fire him...but did Fox have the same talent? You can come up with all kind of reasons to fire him...but do not forget it comes with a risk.

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Marguide Newbie

Marguide

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why do we have to gear it?

Will it put all the concern to rest?

I doubt it.

The players and coaches know where they stand with each other.

Maybe we (the fans) don't need to hear it but JR definitely does and the players should.

Chud's unbalanced offense that eschewed 2 TE sets and relied much too heavily on the read option really set the offense back at the beginning of the year. JR needs to be damn sure that Ron and Chud understand their errors before he gives them another year.

As for the players, they have consistently been blamed for their lack of execution. If I were one of them, I'd have a lot more confidence in the coaches if I knew they were able to learn from their mistakes.

Imo, if Ron and Chud don't know they fugged up early this year then we're in trouble going forward.

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Bj-Monster23 Newbie

Bj-Monster23

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Well if this is the criteria then yes fire him...but did Fox have the same talent? You can come up with all kind of reasons to fire him...but do not forget it comes with a risk.

I know it comes with a risk and I really respect that. But who are we kidding, I just can't see Rivera having our team play consistent each and every year.We completely change the whole entire offense this year. It took our GM to get fired in order for Rivera to change. I honestly believe our best with Rivera will be mediocre. I can't see him getting us to the super bowl or to playoffs. I can't even see him putting together back to back winning seasons. I think what we have seen now is all we are going to get from him. I really do believe it's best to go in a different direction sooner the later.

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panther4life Community Regular

panther4life

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Rivera's 11 wins have come against teams with a combined record of 65-101.

He is 3-19 against teams that finished last year or have a winning record thus far this year. One of those wins came the Texans who had to start T.J Yates who lost all 3 of his starts last year. This stat can't get any better this year as we are playing 2 teams destined to finish with a losing record.

This year he is 2-10 against teams with a winning record.

Last year he was 1-8 vs teams with a winning record.

Thats just not enough improvement to sell me on keeping him. Especially with a new GM coming, now is the time to replace him.

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Bj-Monster23 Newbie

Bj-Monster23

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Rivera's 11 wins have come against teams with a combined record of 65-101.

He is 3-19 against teams that finished last year or have a winning record thus far this year. One of those wins came the Texans who had to start T.J Yates who lost all 3 of his starts last year. This stat can't get any better this year as we are playing 2 teams destined to finish with a losing record.

This year he is 2-10 against teams with a winning record.

Last year he was 1-8 vs teams with a winning record.

Thats just not enough improvement to sell me on keeping him. Especially with a new GM coming, now is the time to replace him.

Wow. I can't believe people really want to keep this guy.

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Kevin Greene Newbie

Kevin Greene

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6-10 last year and will probably finish the same this year as sweeping the Aints is unlikely. Of course a miserable showing against Da Raiders would not be a surprise either.

Rivera has shown me nothing in his willingness to utilize the strengths of the roster Hurney provided him or in his ability to best put that talent in a position to win on the field.

Did Hurney and Rivera ever discuss how to put the Cap Dollars Hurney spent to work on the field and translate that to Ws? Doubtful he'll do it any better for the next GM either.

The verdict is in, it's time for Ron to go. He's done nothing to deserve a 3rd year.

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