Much More Confident About NE Than SF

[PhillyB]

Apples = Oranges.  Gonzales is a baller, a hall of famer that was part of the change at the position.  The re-awakening of what was once one of the best positions in football for a mismatch,.the offensive guard who could pass catch and pull to block, the big body who could bowl over someone yet turn and make the catch.  Gronk may have more talent then Gonzales but when you look at what Gonzo has done and done over and over again you cannot even compare them.  Gronk can't block to save his life, well Brady's.  But, he can hold his own and make up for it having an amazing QB.

 

Posters like you are amazing and make me smile.  You call BS, but choose not to enlighten us why...  class act, so I will engage.  Why BS?  Do you know more about the Patriots then I do?  Maybe, but doubtful.  Do you know more about defense then I do?  Maybe, but doubtful.  I do not have a long tenure here, but elsewhere I have a body of work I can stand behind and actual merits to stand behind.  So, step up to the plate with your petty "BS" and lets hear your call.

 

 

Touchy subject here and I will piss some people off, but as an outsider I see things differently.  I have tried and failed before to get in to it, so I will only mention it this one time because there is no sense in rehashing it.  I am a horrible speaker/typer/whatever - but Cam Newton has a lot of limitations right now.  I like analogies.  Cam Newton has a 50 lbs. tool bag.  Some times he has to put a hole in to concrete and instead of choosing to concrete bit he'll take a hammer and chisel.  Some times it is a 5 lbs. hammer some times it is a 12 oz. hammer.  He has the athletic strength that some times it does not matter, he's good enough he will succeed.  He makes bad choices and he makes misjudgements and errors.  Not like in the past but he still is prone.  And...when he is prone, he's prone.  3 INT days, taking horrible sacks because of not having awareness, etc.  Not all of those are his faults, but still things he needs to overcome to make it to the next level.  I do not care about his awesome stats, how he has lit up all the record charts and everything.  When I look at QB I look at what they add to their team.  Cam Newton is one of the Panthers best players, no doubt about it.  However, his proneness to mistakes, which is dwindling, can break down any chance the Panthers have in winning.  That is not happening as much this year as in the past because the Panthers have got better.  They don't give away those close games like they did in years past, or even earlier this season...LIKE BUFFALO!  Seriously, what a joke of a game.  Both teams were just piss poor so much there it was laughable, no one won that game but the victory had to go somewhere.

 

Hopefully, you're still with me and don't want to mangle and give me bodily harm yet because its about to get ugly.  Newton struggles with many things that will frustrate the piss out of me and many others.  When you knock him from the pocket he just loses his focus and he is a different QB.  I do not have the stats in front of me to back it up or rely on them.  You'll just have to trust it is in my trained eye I do have.  If you flush Cam Newton he is not at the same level as the Newton who has the same ability elsewise.  Now, mind you I am seperating that he can shift in the pocket or move in the pocket without being flushed but when he feels pressure he can cave.  He is prone to it.  The shaddow at the back door, the DE breathing down your neck on the blindside, it's hard for any QB to do.  Trent Edwards in Buffalo was never the same after getting rocked in Arizona a few years ago.  Cam tries to cover this aspect of escaping the pocket relying on his legs because that's what he has been good at all his life, his natural instinct - being an elite athlete.  You really can't fault him for that.  Dorsey has worked well with Newton because it seems he has been learning to step up in the pocket, and move before the pressure is on him to get flushed.  To sense the pocket much like Peyton Manning does - but he is a cerebral QB who is other world in his gifted abilities.  He doesn't have the athletic talent that Newton does.

 

If I am Belicheck I am going to play rush 2 men up the middle on Carolina, much like Buffalo did.  I am going to make Newton go outside and then get Chandler Jones to clean up what comes his way.  I am going to use my strongside defenders to keep him from running and I am going to not let him see downfield.  I won't worry about throwing it back across the field - and that's where I look foward to this game.  Newton in strong enough that he can stand on one side of the hash marker and throw it 40 yards downfield to the other side boundary.  But, again, where I am Belicheck, I know that Carolina's WR's have struggled.  I know my defenders can keep inside control and will eliminate those types of routes - a CB on inside containment wins that.

 

In other word, Newton is going to have to play incredibly smart football to be successful.  I don't know if he has it in him to beat Belicheck, but worse teams have beat him.  I will now use Mark Sanchez as an example.  He is a joke, I really liked what he could do on the football field until he actually took it.  The guy just confounds many people, he didn't pan out.  Yet, he has lead teams that can beat the Patriots countless times in the past many seasons despite being the weakest link.  That's because the Jets teams have been very good and Rex Ryan has Belichecks number come up in his powerball once in a while.  The Panthers are a good enough team that as long as Newton doesn't completely poo the bed Monday they can win it.  If I am Rivera I have a tall task ahead of me and I look at limiting some things Newton does.  Beating the Patriots requires you score more then they do and play smart football.  Pretty simple, right?  If Newton can at the very least manage the game the Panthers can win this.  If he can rise up a little and get some of the 30 yard bombs then he is going to have an effect.  If he can do that, limit mistakes and not produce a turnover he will be a difference maker.  If he can do all that, avoid the sacks, distribute the ball past his 3rd read and read the Pats defense he will be the reason the Panthers win.

 

But, he doesn't have to do all that IMO because the Panthers are a good team this year...finally.  A lot of rebuilding and a lot of work went in to fielding this team.  It's been fun to watch.

 

edit:  I did not say it flat out.  You're right he has not regressed in the last __ games (sorry, I can't keep count of all the past Sundays - as a Bills fan I have spent them crying, drinking, and cursing).  But, he has the potential to regress that quickly, drop of a hat come Monday night.  Until he proves otherwise and has a long stretch of consistent play - I'm talking limited mistakes, smart football - I do not think, anyone here even can say in the back of their mind they 100% confident Newton won't throw 2 INT's and have a fumble Monday night.  He just brings that to the table, it's always a factor.  It sucks.  But, at least he's not Jeff Tuel...

 

Which is what I got in to above.  If Newton scores 3 TDs you know there will be at least 1 TD on the ground by a RB.  If he goes in the air for 3 and adds one on the ground I will be impressed.

 

I would not hold my breath that he will get 4TD's...but I would not be shocked if he pulled it off. 

 

There was that whole Spygate thing, too.  Yeah, that was a pretty big deal.  fug New England.  I like to hate on South Carolina a lot, but at least its not Boston.   :phew:  

 

 

 

it's like you're a fan of a different team in the other conference that doesn't watch every snap cam newton plays or something

[BuffaloBills62]

it's like you're a fan of a different team in the other conference that doesn't watch every snap cam newton plays or something

 

I have seen about 70-80% of Newtons snaps since he began in Carolina.  Living in NC means the game is on every week.

 

If I am wrong, I'm wrong.  If people disagree they disagree.  I don't profess to be an expert, and when I said my trained eye it was not at all in serious form.  I haven't spent time watching his all 22 tapes, other then Bills/Panthers.  I can only account for what I have seen in real time on Fox.  I am fine when someone disagrees.  I will usually respond once or twice and leave it at that.  I have a problem with rude behavior and chest thumping - it's the internet and everyone is a tough guy.  Ruffling feathers is not my MO, but when anyone says anything bad about Newton they become the antichrist and insulted.  It's not appropriate.

 

inb4 "herpderp, yeah, but you're sooo wrong and stupid that you need to hide in a cave and ask for forgiveness, you New Yorker with fat women and ehhh, whatevever else"

 

[CRA]

Could you say that any more offensively? I mean, seriously? What is the point of sounding like such a tough goon when you're actually having a discussion? What recourse can I submit that would be valid enough? Do I up the anty and be more tough guy? Do I say meet me and main street square at midnight? It's pathetic, that it goes on here so often is stupid. If you say anything against Cam Newton you get lambasted. I guess a lot of you want his chocolate syrup down your throats, I don't know... it's annoying. Whats worse, if seeing guys like you in the world, who'd never say that to another mans face - yet, probably would because you have no decency. You, little boy, are a mockery of what a man should be. Shut up, state your opinion, let others state their. If you disagree, you disagree. Make a constructive argument about it, don't be such a dick. It's an internet message board. If you want to make it reality, we can meet for a date at Tavern or Dixie's.

People here waste too much time feeding trolls like you then they do talking football. I cannot believe it is tolerated. Anyway...

Cam has lots of neat records, and I did not say anything to take away from how good he has played. I am just saying the weaknesses in his game have a good chance of being exposed by Belicheck.

Cam doesn't have the record, history, or proven intangibles that Brady does. He is far from a first round ballot HOF QB. Cam is not Tom Brady. This game is not played between two QB's and those stats won't mean crap. I am almost certain Newton will have more yards then Brady by the end of the night, but that will not matter. It is a stat. He is having a Pro Bowl year, but that's the Pro Bowl. You can disagree all you want, but watch your mouth because it makes you look bad.

fwiw, i am not a patriot fan, clearly, i am a bills fan. so i wouldn't be on a pats board.

Why would Newton almost certainly have more yards than Brady? This isn't 2011 or 2012.....big play passing isn't what we do.

Also, we run and NE doesn't look to have the means to shut that down. On the other hand, we certainly look capable of making NE rather one dimensional.

[PhillyB]

I have seen about 70-80% of Newtons snaps since he began in Carolina.  Living in NC means the game is on every week.

 

If I am wrong, I'm wrong.  If people disagree they disagree.  I don't profess to be an expert, and when I said my trained eye it was not at all in serious form.  I haven't spent time watching his all 22 tapes, other then Bills/Panthers.  I can only account for what I have seen in real time on Fox.  I am fine when someone disagrees.  I will usually respond once or twice and leave it at that.  I have a problem with rude behavior and chest thumping - it's the internet and everyone is a tough guy.  Ruffling feathers is not my MO, but when anyone says anything bad about Newton they become the antichrist and insulted.  It's not appropriate.

 

inb4 "herpderp, yeah, but you're sooo wrong and stupid that you need to hide in a cave and ask for forgiveness, you New Yorker with fat women and ehhh, whatevever else"

 

 

it's not so much that you're a complete buffoon so much as it is that everything you said was wrong and dumb

[tailgater]

Many in  this thread point to this years stats for both Cam & Brady as the be all and end all. Thats just too shallow to predict this game.

 

Do I think Cam will have a good game on par with his best this season? Actually, I do. Throw out other seasons - he has a better coach / players than in the past. He's at home. The team is on a roll.

 

Do I think you can judge Brady by this season, and this season only? Heck no! If you do, you'll be disappointed. Go by his last 2-3 games if you want a better predictor for this Monday. Averaging 35+ per game, with Ridley and Gronk at 100%? 

 

BuffaloBill had some good points and has suffered 12 years of BB & Brady. Consider his opinion regarding the Pats as an experienced fan.

[CRA]

I have been lurking on this board for a week or so seeing what Panther fans are saying about the game. Registered tonight.

One thing I have seen in many threads is that Brady is off. You people do realize that Gronk, Amendola and his 3rd down back, Vereen, have been out? They are all back and have had the bye week to scheme. I realize opinions are useless, but if the Pats don't put up at least 30, I will be shocked.

I will be back after the game to discuss what happened, because IMO, before game chest beating by the fan bases of either team is useless. As a fan of NFL football first, I'm pretty confident this will be an exciting, hard fought game.

Good luck. I hope both teams escape any serious injuries and may the best team win.

At least 30? Or you will be shocked? So you less than 30 on the road against one of the toughest D's in the NFL would be a letdown? That thought process means you must think 40-50 is what this team will put up easily on the non top 3ish teams?

I think a good game against a sorry Steeler squad has messed with your perception of reality.

Gronk is big. Yes. He doesn't magically fix everything for NE.

The other guys? Yes, you are better with than without them....but they as well don't fix all your OL issues or the fact that some of Brady's issues this year aren't just b/c they haven't been in the field

[The_Mango55]

 

Anyway, I'd like to see those stats, not that I do not believe you - just to see how everyone stacks up in the league.  Especially Kaepernick.

 

 

They are PFF subscriber stats so I don't have a link, but Cam is 3rd.

 

 

Newton also has a 120 passer rating on 3rd down (best in the league) and a couple weeks ago the panthers had the fewest 3 and outs in the NFL (no idea now)

[Dash Global]

How the hell can ppl say we match up better with NE?!? 

 

SF is built for the run and we are built to stop the run. 

 

SF has poo for a QB. NE has one of the best in the history. 

 

If a team is gonna beat us it is gonna be through the air and Brady is still one of the best in the business. 

 

I think we can win this game, however Cam needs to have a good game and we will need to score 24+ to get the W. 

[dugbug]

If a qb gets to throw the ball without pressure our DBs don't look so hot. Remember kaep and even Bradford had successful drives.

Brady is much better than those guys. If we can't get to him, he will march the field no matter how bad his wrs are. I worry more about ne than 49ers

[fieryprophet]

Could you say that any more offensively? I mean, seriously? What is the point of sounding like such a tough goon when you're actually having a discussion? What recourse can I submit that would be valid enough? Do I up the anty and be more tough guy? Do I say meet me and main street square at midnight? It's pathetic, that it goes on here so often is stupid. If you say anything against Cam Newton you get lambasted. I guess a lot of you want his chocolate syrup down your throats, I don't know... it's annoying. Whats worse, if seeing guys like you in the world, who'd never say that to another mans face - yet, probably would because you have no decency. You, little boy, are a mockery of what a man should be. Shut up, state your opinion, let others state their. If you disagree, you disagree. Make a constructive argument about it, don't be such a dick. It's an internet message board. If you want to make it reality, we can meet for a date at Tavern or Dixie's.

People here waste too much time feeding trolls like you then they do talking football. I cannot believe it is tolerated. Anyway...

Cam has lots of neat records, and I did not say anything to take away from how good he has played. I am just saying the weaknesses in his game have a good chance of being exposed by Belicheck.

Cam doesn't have the record, history, or proven intangibles that Brady does. He is far from a first round ballot HOF QB. Cam is not Tom Brady. This game is not played between two QB's and those stats won't mean crap. I am almost certain Newton will have more yards then Brady by the end of the night, but that will not matter. It is a stat. He is having a Pro Bowl year, but that's the Pro Bowl. You can disagree all you want, but watch your mouth because it makes you look bad.

fwiw, i am not a patriot fan, clearly, i am a bills fan. so i wouldn't be on a pats board.

I'm sorry, I was exaggerating my feelings in a manner similar to the way you exaggerated Cam's mental state and the various strengths and weaknesses of both teams.

Could the Pats kick our ass? Absolutely. But that wouldn't be anything unusual, just like us whipping the Patriots wouldn't be. Football is a high variance sport and when your concerns center on retarded things like thought processes and faulty stats instead of actual critical thought you will get the shaming such malfeasance deserves.

Finally, I have to wonder about the emotional state of a person who takes the obvious ramblings of some random poster so readily to heart. A little visceral trash talk never hurt anyone; in fact, I much enjoy well-written diatribes directed at me.

[TuckRule]

At least 30? Or you will be shocked? So you less than 30 on the road against one of the toughest D's in the NFL would be a letdown? That thought process means you must think 40-50 is what this team will put up easily on the non top 3ish teams?

I think a good game against a sorry Steeler squad has messed with your perception of reality.

Gronk is big. Yes. He doesn't magically fix everything for NE.

The other guys? Yes, you are better with than without them....but they as well don't fix all your OL issues or the fact that some of Brady's issues this year aren't just b/c they haven't been in the field

 

Like I said, the pre game back and forth is useless. We'll know in about 76 hours.

[BearCat]

One thing that Brady does not do well is to handle effective pressure.  

 

Knock him around and down a few times and he will throw a tantrum at his own guys and the NE offence will falter.

 

I think that our D will bounce Brady out of his comfort zone into desperation throws that will be defensed or picked.

 

Best regards,

[Dash Global]

One thing that Brady does not do well is to handle effective pressure.  

 

Knock him around and down a few times and he will throw a tantrum at his own guys and the NE offence will falter.

 

I think that our D will bounce Brady out of his comfort zone into desperation throws that will be defensed or picked.

 

Best regards,

 

No QB is consistently good under pressure. 

[CRA]

Like I said, the pre game back and forth is useless. We'll know in about 76 hours.

Well...I don't consider that pregame."my team is better than yours" silly talk.....

I mean to expect the Patriots to go on the road and easily put up at least 30 or it would be shocker against one of the toughest D's in the NFL.......seems to be overboard.

Could they sure? In think Peterson set the rushing record against one of the best rush teams.....football is unpredictable. But it to suggest thinks as obvious that clearly aren't is a tad much IMO.

Personally, I think we have to continue improving to win. We are continuing and have room to do that as we haven't even been playing that good all around yet.