Proudiddy

Wasn't Hue Jackson fired Baker's rookie year when they were featured? And that looked pretty bad... this would've looked 100 times worse. The fact that we still had other organizations still saying it looked like college practice here during camp this season, I'm glad we avoided it. It will be hard enough to get Rhule's stench out of here, but for other teams/players to see it publicly prolly would have hurt us even more. But that being said, I'm not understanding why we would brought him back if they felt like that within the org.

That's awesome lol

A few of them are inferred from what was said/intentionally not said, but here we go: *Rhule was indeed responsible for most, if not all of the roster moves while he was here. So that should put most of the "Fire Fitterer" crowd on snooze, at least for a little bit... this was inferred from a question about learning from the experience of giving a HC complete control over roster building and Tepper replied that in the future he definitely thinks more balance is needed in say between HC and GM. So, as I and many others thought, the bad deals, like Darnold were executed at Rhule's behest. I think Fitt and the FO staff mainly just did scouting and fished for deals and then presented them to Rhule for approval or rejection, other than ones he sought out himself (like Darnold). *Wilks fired Snow himself. Now this one is juicy. Tepper, when initially asked what went into the decision in firing Snow, said the media would need to ask Wilks in his presser tomorrow. Another reporter followed that up because of the implications that Wilks needed to be asked about it, and Tepper replied, "Typically a head coach gets to choose his staff." He again told them it was better to ask Wilks tomorrow. Yikes. Also, this would be more confirmation of the Twitter rumor from a few weeks back. Wilks just pulled a GoT-style coup. *Despite Rhule having been the main architect of the roster, it sounds very much like Fitterer is on the hot seat as well. This doesn't make much sense to me, as Tepper essentially confirmed the roster was built under Rhule's direction. And with that being the case, the hiring of Fitt doesn't make much sense from the beginning outside of scouting purposes. If he didn't have final say, but is being held accountable for the roster now underperforming, I'm not really understanding this. And what was the point of hiring him? Has he even really been a GM to this point then? And what good would firing him do? *Tepper gave mostly short answers with a very irritated tone. He also closed the presser out with very hostile exchanges with Scott Fowler and another reporter. He seems to regularly read Fowler's pieces and doesn't appreciate them, nor did he want to entertain his question about what the threshold was that finally convinced him to fire Rhule. The question before that was about the ridiculous amount of turnover in the upper echelons of the FO and the failure to follow through on the Rock Hill site. It ended the presser on a very awkward, uncomfortable note. All that being said, I appreciated Tepper accepting responsibility and he gave very thoughtful, nuanced answers regarding fans and their role in all things Panthers. He offered how he shared the perspective as a fan because he was one before he became an owner, and he appreciates our passion and desire for success but he really wants to give things room to develop without being impulsive. But, he did add, which I agree with, that he shouldn't be making any moves driven by fan sentiment. Everything should be about winning. *One thing I particularly didn't like though was Tepper still seems to lack a vision. When asked what improvement/winning culture looks like, he said "winning more than the last season." When asked about what was the deciding factor in firing Rhule, he repeatedly said "getting over the hump." When asked what getting over the hump meant, he said winning. Ok, but what does that look like? How do you get there? What do you want it to look like? He also then repeatedly said we've shown improvement, but we just couldn't get over the hump, and then even cited that we won 5 games two years in a row before this debacle of a season as signs of progress. He still just seems very tone deaf still and has no clear plan of how to get it on track or what markers he looks for that are definitive signs of progress aside from winning. To me, this seems very naive and like he's skipping a lot of steps which I don't really feel comfortable with. *His initial answers sounded like Wilks was just getting these games to finish out the season for that reason and that reason alone... but the further we got into the presser, he prefaced every question about the next coaching search with the statement that it would be unfair to discuss that because Wilks deserves the rest of this year as an opportunity to earn consideration for the full-time job, and he will be given that opportunity before anything else is considered. What Tepper said about why he chose Wilks as the interim was also very glowing and encouraging as he called him a leader of men, and essentially a guy that has the respect and the ear of the locker room and a constant pro.

I appreciate CMC, especially since he's been healthy this year... but, honestly, as a RB, his value is going depreciate rapidly, but he may be the piece to put the Bills over the top... and thus, if they want him, I would demand a first, and I would do it.

That's prolly the best candidate for this quote. I said despite the contract DJ was still a possibility because Smitty has been a bit of a direct mentor to him. But, honestly, with the wave of news that we've gotten today, and in the manner in which these events have unfolded, Burns makes a ton of sense... mainly, because those Twitter rumors from the "insider" seem to be confirmed more and more with each piece of news - such as the Wilks/Snow beef. Part of the beef they said was due to how the defensive players were being used, and it came along with the bit that Burns was likely going to leave when his contract was up because of how he was being used. Makes a ton of sense now. I'm hoping Wilks and Holcomb will use him in a way that encourages him to stay.

DJ is locked in with his contract, so he'll be here, but it's still very likely it was him. That being said, I fully expect a ton of stories to come out now about Rhule... these players are coached up on how to handle media and avoid controversy from HS on nowadays. No matter how they personally felt about him, they were just trying to toe the company line and get through week to week. Now they're not bound to him and I expect a lot of the issues are going to come out publicly.

Damn this is exciting. fug you and your cronies, Matthew.

Just wanted to reiterate... The more that has happened, the more it looks like those rumors were completely spot on. Wilks was fuming behind the scenes, and I didn't really buy it before, but it is starting to look more and more believable that Snow was the actual guy calling the shots in the Rhule regime - which is fuging insane. This is just amazing how this had all unfolded. Wilks gives me hope that we can put something in place that resembles a functioning, professional football team again.

I think Ryan deserves a shot. He had a good reputation before coming aboard this trainwreck.

I think any wins are a bonus at this point, but I look forward to seeing how our players look now being utilized properly. We will now be able to better gauge their worth and development... Also, can't wait to finally see Burns utilized as a pass rusher on third downs instead of dropping into coverage 10 yards downfield and Chinn as a SS when he comes back. This is exactly what we needed to finish out this season, regardless of what happens next season.

This is dope and has some promise.

All of your posts represent my views in this. I definitely think Rhule and Snow were a hand in hand deal... many of us, myself included, felt that once Rhule was gone, whether he resigned or was fired, then Snow consequently would also follow. Rhule said himself he owed his coaching career to Snow and held him in such high regard... so, it's not surprising in that sense. But, this definitely is a bit of a surprise in that Rhule likely isn't assuming a new job until after this season is over, so I'm kind of surprised Snow would go during the season as well... except, going back to the previous point, I think it's likely he bucked at Rhule being fired, and if the rumors about the problems between he and Wilks are true, I bet he showed his ass with Wilks as a demonstration of loyalty to Rhule, and was thus fired. Wow. Quite the soap opera going on here... And although the defense wasnt bad, I am excited to see a pro style defense again, though.

Wow

I would have to go back and rewatch a lot of the games, but just from memory, I remember feeling like we were competitive but just always seemed to find a way to lose. Under Rhule, it felt worse than that... By about halfway through last season, I went into every game KNOWING we would not only lose, but would be embarrassed, look unprepared, and completely outclassed.

While recency bias tends to definitely have an effect on our perspective, see below. This. And Seifert had a background and history working with one of the best coaches in league history before coming here, as well as professional players as a professional coach. Even the 1-15 season, we were so effing close. It was just so many heartbreaking losses coming down to the last drive or last play from what I remember. We were competitive. Under Rhule, we got worse each season... we regressed and not just by a little bit. The fact we knew if the opponent scored 17, we were going to lose is about as hopeless as it gets. He was horrible.

Welp, the Baker era is over as quick as it started. Call Cam.

Don't know if it's already been posted, but Glazer tweeted that FOs around the league will start calling us to see what's available as they suspect we will want to maximize draft picks and assets moving forward with a rebuild. I don't agree with this approach, but I could understand it with someone like CMC or Robby because of their contracts, them bring able to help a contender, and the likelihood that they won't be here very long after this season anyway. Anyone other than that, I'm not really looking to move.

It finally happened. I didn't think this day would ever come.

100% facts. I think it should be a matter if Cam wants to. If so, let's ride!

I dont think it would be fair to Cam, honestly. But, I also think we're at the point that no other team is going to sign Cam, and Wilks is now the HC so there is a previous connection/relationship from better times, so whereas a couple weeks ago I thought it was a complete impossibility, I could see it now.

I can see your points on all fronts, LP, and I respect them. Definitely question marks to be concerned with in each case, but then I ask... what is the best hire then? I feel like we really screwed up by holding onto Rhule this long because outside of those guys and Payton, i just dont know of any surefire candidate everyone would love and feel confident in. I think Daboll wouodve been a homerun, and he's proving to be now. And ITT, I really was only focusing on the younger/less proven candidates... Payton is probably my number one target because he's proven, has a proven system, and would instantly bring respect back to our franchise. I hate his guts, but that could all change very quickly if he came on here.

It's really about cutting losses at this point, literally... anything to the contrary is the sunken cost fallacy. The longer he stays, the deeper the hole gets that we have to climb ourselves out of and the bigger the cloud that hangs over the franchise... and that can't be understated. That is hard to work your way out of. Really hard. It takes a special coach to come in and be able to turn a culture around where the team he is inheriting has won only about 25% of their games over the last three years. If Rhule stays, we'll be down to below .200, IIRC. Now sure, at that point, a #1 overall QB will help, but that's only if you actually hit on them... so you really need to play this like that's not a given and see what you can do in terms of scheme and changes this year by firing Rhule and seeing what parts of the roster are salvageable. The record is irrelevant. And as an aside, I had to attend my grandmother-in-law's funeral services yesterday with my wide and children, then spent the day with her family afterwards. We didn't get home til late, and I barely checked anything to do with our game. It was the first game which I've missed the entirety of since the inception of our franchise. And amazingly, it felt really good. I was already long detached from emotions since last season, but I was still invested. I still spent hours discussing a whole lot of nothing here after every game, including this season, when I already know what the outcome will be and how it will play out. It was so refreshing to spend the day having meaningful interaction with loved ones then brooding over what we all already know will happen with this team every Sunday under this abhorrent regime (Tepper included). Canning Rhule is the first step to winning the fans back and turning this thing around. And again, the longer they string this out with him, the more damage is done and the longer it will take to repair it for the next staff. And honestly, the longer he stays, the more likely it is the entire roster will have to be overhauled because once the young, talented leaders of this team (think Burns, Chinn, etc.) get tainted with this losing, sometimes they can't ever get out of it and won't last through a new staff coming in.