Mage

I mean, he went 9-7 in his first season there. 6-10 in the second. Obviously not great, but they weren't TERRIBLE, they just didn't have a QB. I think Saban could have had success if he stuck it out, but I do agree he's a much better college coach.

I don't want to bring Short back, but I would like us to add one more pass rusher. You can never have too many. Fox and YGM are good but as of now, mostly in a rotational role (I expect YGM to have a strong year though). It'd be nice to have another proven pass rusher like Burns and Reddick. I know we want to stay young, but Justin Houston would be a fantastic signing.

Sewell or Pitts.

That is a very winnable 4-game opening stretch, if true.

That is a crazy athletic defense.

Why do you think it sounds that way? I got the impression that Rhule and Fitterer weren't all that interested in Fields. Regardless, I actually think we should have drafted Justin Fields. LIS, I loved him as a prospect, so nothing I am saying is reflective of my personal opinion of him. I would have loved to double-dip. At the same time, too many people are coming to conclusions based on something we simply don't know. It is like they haven't watched the NFL for more than 2 years. This happens ALL the time. A "great" prospect "falls out of nowhere," every fanbase gets mad at their FO for passing on them, and then said player... fails. And as much as I like Fields, it isn't like the concerns aren't valid. His field processing is very slow (by far the biggest concern). He did play for a stacked team (the same criticism people throw at Mac Jones). That's all I'm saying. I just don't believe in calling picks bad before the games are played, unless the pick was made at a position the team clearly didn't need (Shaq Thompson, Vernon Butler). And cornerback has been a huge need for the Panthers forever.

Lol come on dude. I've always shown you respect on this forum and have said several times how highly I think of your posts/opinions. So why resort to insulting me? I understand what opportunity cost is. But if we take Fields and he fails, then how exactly does that work out in our favor? Yeah, of course if Fields turns into this amazing franchise QB, we missed out and sure, your "opportunity cost" argument applies. But if he lasts 3-4 years as a starter before the Bears give up on him, then exactly what opportunity was lost? Once again, this is why the debate is flawed. Because we're debating something we won't know until the games are played. The only difference is I'm just saying to exercise patience and that either side could be right, whereas you feel it necessary to tell me I don't understand a basic concept like opportunity cost. At the end of the day I'm not looking to get into a Darnold/Fields debate with you. My whole point was that suggesting using a 2nd round pick on someone constitutes "mortgaging the future" is wild logic. It ain't much different than drafting a bust with a 2nd round pick.

Yes, it is a QB league, but you can't throw darts at the position blindly. If you don't like a prospect, then why take him? That is the problem with this debate. You are saying they should have taken Fields presumably because you think he will succeed. They did not take Fields because, presumably, they do not think he is likely to succeed. You could be right. They could be right. But we won't know until football is played. Which is why IMO it is foolish (not calling you foolish - you're an amazing poster) to call it a bad pick because nobody really knows. I sound like a broken record but it bears repeating, we weren't the only team that wasn't high on Fields. He wasn't even given a sliver of consideration at any of the top 3 picks. The most desperate team in the NFL had to trade up and get him. I think everyone is still stuck on this idea that Fields is some amazing, can't miss prospect... and don't get me wrong, if that is your evaluation of him, stick to that. Always stick to your own evaluations. My point is though it ain't like the Panthers were alone in that feeling. We did the same thing a lot of other teams did. We'll find out at some point if those teams were right or if they weren't. And if we weren't, then heads will turn here eventually, I'm sure. But as of now? I think people are up in arms about the unknown.

The thing is, I'm not even saying I think Darnold will work out. I just think it is ridiculous how quick people want to call a pick bad or say we mortgaged our future before football is played. Ya'll do realize WAY better prospects than Justin Fields have done terribly in the NFL, right? It isn't like anything I'm saying is outlandish. I'm just asking for a wait-and-see approach. If we, like other teams, don't think Fields can be a franchise QB, then we made the choice we feel is best for us. We'd be in a WAY worse spot if we took Fields 8 and he and Darnold both flopped.

This is horrendous logic though. I'm sorry dude but it is. You don't know how Fields is going to turn out. What if we drafted Fields and he busted? That puts us in an even worse situation, because now we wasted draft capital on 2 QBs who didn't work out. That has the same likelihood as him being a franchise QB. And again, this isn't me arguing against Fields. I liked Fields, if not loved him as a prospect, and would gladly have welcomed him here. But you are flat-out, 100% exaggerating when you say we mortgaged your future. I literally just gave you an example of a team who did exactly what we did, got even less return on the field than we are likely to get with Darnold, and who ended up doing just fine the year following. Again, if Darnold fails like you say he will, then the Panthers will pick top 10 again next year. And again, there will be 3-4 QB prospects that people talk about in the 1st round, and 2 of them will fall... like it happens every single year. And Panthers will have a shot at one of them. It isn't the end of the world. Nobody knows how any of this will play out. Even if it is "predictable" that Darnold will fail, nobody knows how Fields will turn out. Again, clearly NFL teams didn't think as highly of Fields as we did, and it took the most desperate team in the NFL trading up for him. Sure players fall all the time but when it is a CB, and multiple QB needy teams pass on you? Yeah, I think we should take a step back and really reconsider how much of a "can't-miss" prospect he actually is, or how some of you are making him out to be. I just want to know. If Fields does terribly this year and looks like another Ohio State QB, and Horn does very well, are you still going to say it is a bad pick because of opportunity cost? And that right there is why I think calling anything a "bad pick" before football is played isn't sensible. Because how can it be a bad pick right now, but suddenly be a good pick next year? So until we see how this plays out, making statements like "we mortgaged our immediate future" are just completely off-base. If we had passed on Haskins when he fell years ago, ya'll would have been saying the same thing. "We could have gotten a potential franchise QB." But ish isn't guaranteed, especially for QBs.

I don't think he did though. A lot of people felt before the draft that the quality of DBs dropped off immensely after the 1st round, especially compared to OL and WR (so for example, if you needed both a CB and a WR, it makes more sense to go CB in the 1st and WR in the 2nd). Probably a big reason why you saw 5 drafted in the 1st round. Also why the Saints were trying to trade up, because they knew they would miss out on one. Horn went about where he should have gone (top 15).

Come on man. That is a MASSIVE exaggeration. Dolphins used a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen in 2019, and he barely played for them. And yet they went 10-6 last year. And I'd argue we are in a much better position entering 2019 than the Dolphins were, considering everyone and their momma predicted them to finish with the league's worst record that season. I get you aren't a fan of Darnold. But to say we mortgaged our immediate future? Nah. If he sucks it will be a bummer to not have that 2nd round pick next year but it is far from mortgaging the future, especially when you consider the sheer amount of cap space we are slated to have next year. That is the beauty of the NFL. There are opportunities to improve your team every year unless you are both in cap hell and don't have any draft capital (see: Texans). There will be opportunities to get a QB again, especially if Darnold fails as spectacularly as you predict.

Yeah this defense, on paper, looks amazing. No excuses for Phil Snow this year (not saying that as a slight against him because I think he did very well last year given what he had to work with, but now I think this defense needs to at least finish in the top-16).

And if Fields and Jones end up being busts? Look, I get what you are saying and I'm not saying any of this directed at you, just in general because it is a common theme on this site lately. But the draft is a crapshoot. There are so many ways this could play out. 1) Horn busts, Darnold succeeds, Fields succeeds 2) Horn succeeds, Darnold busts, Fields busts 3) Horn succeeds, Darnold busts, Fields busts 4) Horn busts, Darnold succeeds, Fields busts So on and so forth. It isn't like we're the only team that passed on Fields. And look, I LIKE Fields, but I also think it is telling that it was the team that was BY FAR the most desperate in the NFL that traded up for Fields. NFL teams were clearly a lot more down on Fields than fans/analysts were, and that should speak volumes. People said the same thing about Haskins and how he fell and how the Giants screwed up. And yeah, Daniel Jones hasn't been good, but he's been better than Haskins. At the end of the day, as hard as it is, we need to just be patient. Nobody knows what is going to happen. And the idea that the team should just blindly throw darts at the QB position until it works out is how you end up with a terrible team. I love the Horn pick. We've had a horrible secondary for what feels like forever; even when Norman was here, it was only held together by veterans and band-aids. And yeah, if Fields works out, it will sting. But that isn't a guarantee. We just gotta wait and see. But everyone lamenting it as a huge mistake must think that good prospects always work out and that just isn't the case. The fact is, out of the 5 QBs in the 1st round, at least 2 in all likelihood will bust. I doubt that is Trevor, leaving Wilson/Fields/Jones/Lance. 1 is going to be Lance. Not sure about the other... sounds crazy but I like Jones' chances in New England under Beli/McD a LOT more than I do Fields in Chicago.

This logic is dumb as hell.

People complain that our DBs suck every year... complain when we spend a 1st round pick on improving it. Jaycee Horn is a damn good player. I slightly prefer Surtain but ya'll hating on this pick overrating

Panthers are not taking Mac Jones

If they want to give us a future 1st, then I'm all ears. Otherwise, hell no. EDIT - Actually, nah. Not even a future 1st, considering the Bears could definitely make the playoffs. Not sure a 20th overall pick this year and another 20s pick next year would be worth giving up the 8th overall pick.

Quentin Nelson just got his picked up. Lots of good players still haven't had theirs picked up. I read a lot of NFL teams were moving their feet slow on it because this is the 1st offseason where the 5th-year option, if you pick it up, will be guaranteed no matter what. It used to be guaranteed only in the event of injury. So I think behind the scenes we were probably trying to see if we could reach a long-term contract beforehand.

Seems like a great guy but with the game on the line, dude doesn't have it in him to get the job done. It was painful to watch.

Pitts is not making it to #8.

The fact is 99% of college QBs, even the good ones, aren't making multiple reads on most throws. I've seen plenty of plays where Jones had no issue moving to his 2nd or 3rd read. Jones, mechanically, is just so far ahead of Lance. Lance has a very high ceiling, and by all accounts has a great football IQ, so I do think it could work out for him. But Jones is just more impressive on tape to me.

Panthers are in love with Fields

He’s underrating his arm strength but I do agree Lance is very overhyped/overrated. I’d rather have Mac Jones tbh. 100% agree on his playing speed.

I thought Shaq was fine last year.