WhoKnows

Dude, I’m sorry but I don’t get your worries about this magical culture and fan involvement. We’ve sucked balls since 2018 because we actually did what you want to do. Limp along and try to win as many games as possible without actually being good. All that does is cause the same problems you didn’t want to gamble on happening. Well, they did what you wanted and what did we get for it? 7 drafts and Young, Horn and Brown, not exactly a SB winning core. We haven’t won more than 7 games since 2017 and you are worried about risking our culture, etc.? That’s silly. Cam and Luke have been gone for 5+ years now. We finally had a draft in 2025 where we actually had our full allotment of picks. We absolutely screwed up by not going full rebuild. Texans did in the same window and they’ve been to the playoffs multiple times and have a much better team. Any fan issues now in Houston even with the Watson massage debacle? I will separate this statement because I get annoyed at back seat driving type comments. Many of us like minded draft followers and GM and wannabes said that we should have tanked in 2022 and traded every guy where teams offered quality picks. You might not like it, but we were 100% correct. Sure, Fitterer might have pissed them away but the Rams 2024/2025 1sts would have been Morgan’s picks. You also have to rebuild through the draft, period, which is why bad teams try build up picks, not trade them all away or don’t take hauls when available. There’s not one team that rebuilt through FA and was successful. It doesn’t exist because the key guys (Eagles OL/DL, Hurts, Mahomes, Kelce, Chris Jones) on Super Bowl teams (Kuechly, TD, Cam) are drafted. I grew up in CT and I went to Pats games when people handed you stacks of free tickets in the parking lot because no one wanted to go to their games. One QB and a bunch of solid OL/D picks and they were a different franchise. We can only hope that Canales is the right coach and that 2025 is the start of drafting well. If I’m being objective, we’ve still got a ways to go.

I’m not suggesting that tanking is the right thing to do every time. I do think that if you have guys like Burns and Moore that you will trade anyway, then you should think about tanking and getting max value, especially if you want to grab a QB that might go 1st overall. We tried to do both. Trade CMC for picks but don’t take 3 1sts and a 2nd for Burns and Moore. Instead, we won a few games and then threw in Moore on a trade because we didn’t tank and we gave Burns away for a 2nd. Can you honestly say that fully tanking, by trading away all our best guys who weren’t in future plans, in 2022 wouldn’t have made our team better now? We wanted a rookie QB and we didn’t extend the main guy we didn’t want to trade. We were 100% in full tear down and we could have been a playoff team last year if we used the 4 extra 1sts or 3 1sts and 2 2nds (counting picks saved on Young by being pick 3 or 4 not 9) on D. Culture building is funny. It took three coaching changes to seemingly get there. Morgan and Canales weren’t in charge when we “protected” our culture. We still traded Burns and Moore, we just lost 3 first round picks in the process. Also, do you think the Eagles are in a bad place because of their coach clearly tanking a game for a draft pick? Remember that? It was obvious and the coach was fired. The funny thing is that this is something teams do all the time but they add their stars (like Cam in 2016, CMC, Burns, etc.) to IR or rest them in week 16/17. Pederson was just dumb and made it obvious. He could have just sat his starters to start. Anyway, did that incident tank risk their credibility? Did Barkley decide to not sign with them? Seems like their SB win and other SB visit say they are just fine. Winning makes culture, picking the right coach makes culture, trading away guys who are on other teams in a year for top picks and keeping more picks by having a better starting pick to trade up, does not impact culture. If it helps you win, culture will be fine, ask the Eagles.

I don’t know why the tanking concept is not understood. Coaches and players are not involved at all. It’s always the front office. If we had actually traded players like we should have back in 2022, we would have effectively tanked and gotten a better pick than 9 so we lost all the draft picks to get Young. We traded CMC. We should have traded Burns for the haul and taken GB’s offer of a 1st for Moore. We could have easily traded anyone else. We see it in every sport, every year. Trade deadlines where bad teams give up current assets for future assets. Unfortunately, we were stupid and decided we only wanted to trade CMC for peanuts even though we clearly had a plan to go after Young. We were dumb and there is no way you can tell me that we shouldn’t have tanked via trading away Burns, Moore and anyone else. We’d be a much better team right now had we had a fire sale and tanked the 2022 season. Trading away your top players for future draft picks or prospects (baseball) is tanking. Shoeless Joe and the black Sox is not tanking. That’s point shaving/betting on your sport/team. Again, I just don’t get why this concept is so hard to get when MLB, NFL and NBA teams trade players for future assets every single year and usually end up with better draft slots (or at least odds since Hornets never win the lottery).

I easily believe the lottery is rigged. Dallas trades Luka to the Lakers to keep an aging Lakers relevant and surprise, beats the 1.8% odds. San Antonio has to be one of the luckiest stories and of course they got a big man after their history of big men (Robinson and Duncan). Cleveland gets LeBron. Sucks yet again for the Hornets losing ground on the odds to miss out on Flagg and even the easy top 3.

Here in lies the rub that the supporting posters continue to ignore. He wasn’t a 2nd round pick in the 2025 class, especially with an ACL tear. It was a dumb pick for any GM who looks ahead to determine values. C and CB were much better values than an injured RB in 2024. If a RB isn’t even playing much in 2024, you have to compare him to 2025. We’re beating a dead horse but only because the defense of the pick is almost comical at this point. We’ve made a ton of poo picks and moves/non trades while Morgan was GM and the assistant GM. It happens, we don’t have to jump through hoops to act like we just had some really bad luck. The 2025 draft class is unknown so far but damn it felt way better afterwards for the first time in a long time. Embrace the potential and stop stamping guaranteed on the box of poo of the 2018-2024 drafts. We are were we aware because of them and 2025 has to hit so we can get past the 7 win max in 7 year hurdle. Also, “flashed his talent” isn’t 9 carries for 22 yards. His one reception for 18 yards isn’t a flash with 11 other touches for 27 yards. He hasn’t proven anything. We have no idea if he’ll contribute in 2026.

Jalen Carter came into camp out of shape too. That was part of the reason he dropped considering he was thought of as the better defensive player pre-draft activities. It’s not a good sign when you don’t look great but it’s definitely premature.

If you go on the PUP list before the season starts, you are gone for the year. If you start the year on the PUP list then you can get off of it. Kind of semantics, but we are putting him on the PUP list now which is before week 1, that’s why people who come off of it aren’t really on the PUP list until week 1, hence you usually hear right before the season that they are “starting the year” on the PUP list. I think PUP list and IR may basically be the serve the same purpose now because you also sometimes hear that if a player is added to the IR before week 1 that they aren’t eligible to come off the IR list for the entire year. Now, everyone added to IR (post week 1) can come off after 4 (or more) games so the PUP list is meaningless since it’s 6 games and starts at week 1. Anyone added to PUP or IR in the preseason is gone for the year.

No kidding on the play the young guys. We have 0 chance to win it all and maybe a 10-20% chance at a first round playoff exit. Clowney isn’t a difference maker so let the young guys learn how to play in the NFL.

Yep. Thats why it never made sense. He was most likely out for most of 2025 and he was an injury risk and the 2025 RB class was loaded and the 2024 RB class was not. All signs pointed to an obvious don’t buy high on a 3 year (2 now) rookie deal when you can buy low with no injury risk on a 4 year rookie deal the next draft.

Yeah, kind of weird since we had Kalil anchoring the OL for so long. I assume they like the Cincy guard and plan to use him as the 3rd C (behind Mays). Maybe Mays just showed more so no point in keeping Rahm.

I was going to mention this since Brooks is officially out for 2025, basically a roster move and he’ll be like an additional draft pick in 2026 barring a shower accident.

I thought the same thing. It was a really weird list. I thought it was going to be top values but it wasn’t. Basically, they are saying we made a bad 1st round pick and our 2nd round pick wasn’t even in the top 100. That doesn’t feel like love. It feels like someone perused the list and saw 4 of our picks in the top 100 and skipped the content for each player.

Completely disagree. Being a contested catch monster like TMac is absolutely athleticism. WRs don’t just magically learn that. You’ll hear about it when people say he’s got great body control and snatches the ball away from defenders. That’s not learned. Same with body catching versus hand catching at 24+. At this point, you are who you are. You can improve a bit but someone like Amon-Ra St. Brown has been on his Jugs machines probably a couple hundred thousand times more than XL has been. You can’t just learn that in an offseason. Oh well, the blind faith in XL is impressive. It’s like I’m talking bad about Steve Smith in his prime.

McConkey played on a different team than Legette did. There was no one else on SC except Legette. Anyway, the point was that people are assuming XL is ultra talented and he’ll improve and I don’t agree. I was pointing out how he did well against mediocre to bad teams and did meh against good teams, so assuming he’ll be a 1000 yarder breakout is premature IMHO. I think Coker, Thielen and TMac will get the bulk of WR snaps. I wanted McConkey for his separation ability, simple as that and he seemingly confirmed what a lot of us in here thought. Also, we’ve been down this road with TMJ and Mingo and people in here predicting 1000 yarder seasons.

His YPR was about 10. He got tons of short passes. Thielen and Coker had much higher YPT and also had much higher catch %s. The numbers don’t reflect what you are asserting. It would be awesome if XL just snapped and was amazing. I just don’t think it will happen because I don’t think he’s going to get as many opportunities or get passes for drops. We’ll see how it goes. I’m not expecting playoffs this year. Too many IFs and a lot of still very young players we are counting on to be good.

I’m not too critical, he was close to 100 targets. I don’t know if drops weren’t an issue but he had one season so it’s hard to extrapolate. He had 7 games of 94+ yards his only big season. He did that against Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Furman, UNC, Florida and Jacksonville St. he had 71 yards or less against Georgia, Tennessee, Clemson, Texas A&M and Missouri. Basically, good games against teams under .500 in the SEC and the meh OOC teams and meh games against the .500 or better in the SEC and Clemson. I wanted McConkey so maybe I am jaded a bit but we have 3 WRs better than him right now on the roster and maybe more if another rookie flashes. I don’t think they will limit him as much as he’s got to step up his game to earn anywhere near the targets he had last year.

WR talent includes hand catching, body control and contested catching/snatching the ball. If you don’t have that at 24+ years old, I don’t think you can say he definitely has the talent to breakout. Also, it’s highly likely that XL’s snap count goes down. Thielen and Coker only played 10 and 11 games last year. Legette played 16 games and had 50% more snaps than Thielen and Coker. Add in a true #1 WR, a real 3rd down RB, more rookie WRs and a rookie TE and unless Young throws for 4000+ (he and Dalton had 3400 last year), XL’s opportunities don’t look better this year. Personally, I think the top 3 WRs will be TMac, Thielen and Coker and XL rotates in as needed.

I don’t mean to dump on you, but we always have too many unrealistic hopes in the preseason. It’s one thing if we were back in the playoffs/winning divisions but when we stink we are really unrealistic. Jordan Matthews hadn’t played in years but we think he could do well? Sanders breaking Panther rookie TE records so now he’ll double that production even after we add a 3rd down RB and a, hopefully, stud WR? I’m hoping for the team to keep improving but let’s discuss the top 2 Panthers rookie TE seasons: 33-342 1 TD 36-333 2 TDs I didn’t look it up but I’m assuming the comment about Sanders breaking a record is true, so Sanders is the first row. Anyone hazard a guess on who row two is? That’s right, that’s our legendary Ian Thomas. If Sanders can’t block and Evans can, I really hope Evans wins the starting or 2nd TE spot. I feel like we discussed this before that we often tipped our hand pass/run based on the TE playing. Sanders wasn’t so dynamic that he’s got to be on the field so hopefully Evans/Tremble step up so that we can run or pass at any time without being hindered by bad blocking.

I don’t see Sanders getting anywhere close to that production. Tremble is likely starting and he and Sanders are just OK. Best bang for the buck is that Evans ends up being that blocker plus receiver and takes the starting spot. We want to run the ball so a TE that legitimately can block well and also get open/catch the ball would help so that Ds can’t key on the offense based on the TE.

We offered him $25k signing bonus and $225 guaranteed (including bonus) to sign as a UDFA. By making the team and doing well because he joined a team where he could, get this, start some and get almost 500 yards, guess how much he made in just 2024 and 2025? Over $1.7M. So, you really think he went for the most UDFA money or a place where the WR corps would allow him to make an NFL team and earn 8 times the UDFA money in his first two years and potentially cement himself for an even bigger payday of 2026 and beyond. Hmm, I wonder. I think seeing as he was the only UDFA RB, TE or WR to have over 158 yards (didn’t pay to see more stats muse, could have been even lower), he made the right choice on where to go to maximize earnings. Sorry again, but if you really think UDFAs and their agents prefer the small bonus/UDFA guarantee and don’t think about the easiest place to make the team, you’re wrong again. The $$$ you get just by making the team is way more and could get you multiple years. Choose a team you can’t make and your career can be over in one offseason.

It’s amazing how simple it is. When you are winning 2-7 games for 7 straight years, you’d think people would understand that just drafting some starters isn’t poo unless they are above average NFL starters. Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase started their rookie years like Legette did so we got an elite WR in the 2024 draft. Luke was a rookie starter just like Wallace. Damn we basically got a Kuechly and Jefferson last year. Bravo Dan Morgan!!!

I didn’t even say they would be starters. I don’t think Legette will be and Coker was not drafted. Coker chose to sign with us because our WR room gave him a chance to start even though we drafted a guy in the 1st. That should tell you something when Coker chose to come to Carolina even after we took Legette. We drafted and signed guys to potentially replace Sanders, who isn’t a starter yet over Tremble) and Wallace. Go look at our other drafts since Rhule. We had tons of rookie contribution from all of our recent classes. Why, because our overall talent sucked and we needed bodies. Go look at PFR. Here’s some of our players who “started” for a year: TMJ, Mingo, BC, Ian Thomas, Jermaine Carter, Dennis Daley, YGM and Roy. That’s what Legette and Wallace are right now although unless TMac bombs, Legette has kind of already lost his spot. We’ve had shitty drafts since 2018 and every single one has contributed at least two guys who’ve started so 2024 is tied for last right now and we just had a draft where we took 3 more players who play the same position as 3 of our top 4 picks in 2024 but somehow I’m saying that the 2024 draft class is good? Nope, the 2024 draft class was bad and our team is still in the low enough talent quadrant that lots of rookie contribute in our holes until we replace them. Been the same story since 2018 and accelerated as the old solid vets retired/move on.

Seriously? You think we might have 4 or even 5 starters the next couple years from last year’s draft? Wallace and Legette were starters because of injuries and no good depth. We’ve already resigned Thielen and drafted TMac. I’d be shocked if Legette isn’t WR4 (snap/target/production wise) behind those two and Coker. I’m not Sure if Wallace will stay a starter with Rozeboom. Smith-Wade might be the likeliest starter for now because we didn’t draft a CB. We’ll see if he sticks. Sanders may also start but the starting TE is like being the tallest midget. We’ve had about 500ish receiving yards from TEs each of the past 3 years whether it was Thomas/Tremble or Tremble/Hurst or Tremble/Sanders. Honestly, if Evans can stay healthy, the fact that he can actually block (unlike Thomas who sucked but was called a blocking TE) and catch could make him the best starter we have at TE. Also, Brooks missing two of four rookie contract seasons and caused us to draft Etienne in the 4th and sign Dowdle. Sorry man, you’re smoking some serious hopium trying to justify last year’s draft as if it was good. We are one of the worst talented teams in the NFL over the past 7 seasons and sometimes that means that we get a lot of rookie contributors but it doesn’t mean it was a good draft. Until the rookies are actually above average starters it’s like going from Thomas to Tremble to Sanders to Evans. There’s no impact to our win total until one of them actually is more than just a starter because we have to play someone. One last nugget, we won’t be a playoff team if 25% of our starters are from the 2024 draft.

Last year’s draft was bad and we all pretty much knew it afterwards except the eternal optimists. This year’s draft was way better. It still hinges on TMac working out and actually getting edge production, but there were no obvious WTF did we take him over XYZ. This draft could end up great or bad, but it has actual potential. Last year’s was a it’ll be great if somehow we hit the lottery odds.

Sorry, we can’t accept #4 when Person or one of the others said that Morgan was on the say no to the Rams Herschel Walker level deal team. He and Fitterer tried to extend Burns. We waited too long so he asked for $30M which basically cost us 2 1sts we could have used in the Bryce trade up and not given away the 2024 1st overall pick, Moore and this year’s 2nd. Morgan does not get credit for botching the Rams offer. All he’s done so far is spend a lot on FAs. Let’s let him actually have a solid draft first because the 2024 draft was pretty much a bust. We spent a 1st and 4th this year on the same positions we took 1st and 2nd last year.