MHS831

It is murky at best. I think we need a real #2, and if Stevens were to win that job, forget the whole idea. I mean, I hate to compare him to Taysom Hill, but he started and won a game or two--and they are very similar players in terms of skill set. Hill ran a 4.44 to Stevens 4.49, but Hill is 6-2, 225, Stevens 6-5 235. The big question: Is Stevens good enough to be the third QB? Then ask, can he be the #3 QB and play gunner, TE, wildcat, etc.? If so, our offense and special teams could be better--- or we could keep Will Grier in case we lose 2 QBs....

He may not--I was just wondering about the Sullivan signing-it allows them to keep a TE on the PS that could be elevated at any time. And you are right about playing multiple positions/serving multiple roles--every new spot brings a new playbook with it, to a degree. I just see the TE position being quietly made effective in the offseason using second hand parts, so to speak. I think it could be the single biggest position upgrade on the offense--based on the vanilla, non-threatening mess we saw last year.

I heard that before and argued against it (with a guy who used to play in the NFL--just not OL) and he proved me wrong. I remember being surprised. He added that by the end of the season, they are playing hurt in a lot of cases. Why 17 games is so critically important. swapping a preseason game (which is like a glorified practice) for a game is bad. He thinks they should play no more than 15 games.

Unzip, zip. good job.

I have seen him do well at times, but he lacks the heart and the mind. This may sound petty, but I checked out his twitter the other day, and there were things from Ole Miss and his high school---one clip from the Panthers where he made a good block on a screen--he is not living, breathing, eating Panther football--in my limited opinion.

Good point.... the 2 players from free agency play 5 and 3 positions respectively. Christensen is going to settle at LG, but they tried him at C in camp, as well as G and T. Not ruled out as a LT, but likely a decent T, really good G. Moore (G, C) can play if he develops, and I think Brown can play both G spots. Elflein can play C. Daley is versatile and so is Scott, a player I really like. Here is why have versatile depth as a backup is important--remember when Gross went down several years ago and we moved LG Wharton to LT? That looks good on paper, but you just got weaker a 2 positions instead of only 1. Defensive coordinators will attack your weaknesses. And what I learned as a line coach in high school---where the DCs are far less aware---is that you can't "hide" 2 weak OL. You can get away with one, but not more than that. It makes sense.

Because if you had vision, you could see the possibilities and how this player could open up the offense. But since you don't see how a 6-5 235 lb swiss army knife might help the offense, you could sit by your computer and try to derail threads. In fact, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from talking about this JAG and let some others share thoughts--assuming that is what you were trying to do.

I suppose if I had to narrow down the Panthers to the most versatile players, my list would look something like: Chinn--SS, FS, LB Hartsfield SS, Nickel, CB Erving T, G, C Tremble TE, Hback, Fback Marshall slot, X, Z Stevens QB, Hback, wildcat, TE, flanker, etc. ??? Versatile players save roster spots and enhance depth. A roster is 53/55 players, and not all dress on game day. a third QB holding in clip board and cracking one liners during time out huddles on the sideline is a waste of a roster spot. So when you consider how we could use Stevens (Taysom Hill) to enhance the offense and still have a #3 QB, the word versatility adds a roster spot. I think this impacts the decisions we will made at TE more than QB. I think Arnold and Tremble are locks, and I also think Ian Thomas and maybe Colin Thompson are liabilities that will be cut. Sullivan can go to the PS and learn while this "experiment" unfolds. Think Arnold as the starter, but then think about the TE situation after that. How are we a bigger threat with a 3rd round TE and 7th round backup QB in a way we are not a threat with Ian and Colin? We have discussed how Tremble will help--lead blocker hback, fullback, etc. A thumper in the backfield. Stevens, in that same position, turns the Hback, fullback, wildcat into a passing/running threat. So essentially, he is as good as most 3rd string QBs because he is dual threat, but he is making the TE position 3-dimensional. Arnold the receiving threat, Tremble the blocking threat, and Stevens, the passing/running threat. Do we need Grier now? Would Stevens actually save us a roster spot, allowing us to carry 2 TEs? Since some of you are unfamiliar with his skill set, I have included some moving pictures from Miss St. He tells the story of how Payton's ego sent him to New Orleans at the cost of a sixth rounder, only to be given some development and sent to free agency for the Panthers. https://youtu.be/DtX-valcSJg

How long are these supposed to last?

Person is pretty accurate when it is common knowledge.

Which means Thomas ($2m), JJ ($1m), and possibly Action Jackson (doubtful, but maybe traded) at $2.5m could be sent packing. Thomas is nearly certain, JJ probable, and Jackson is probably not, but...

Tremble will rotate in and play in the backfield some--to what degree? No real idea, but I can see him getting up to 25% of the snaps.

True in life as well.

That one did not fly over this head. Nice work.

I never played on this new stuff with the rubber tire balls in it or the synthetic grass whatever, but in college, we played and practiced on an artificial surface. You had to tape up just to prevent getting burns and scabs. Playing on grass was great, but required different shoes and the footing felt a bit different. Grass was slower, and some teams would grow it thicker and higher if you had a speed advantage over them--but if you ask a player from yesteryear, I might have gone to a different college if I considered the turf--when it rained and seeped into the padding beneath the turf and then froze---it was like playing on concrete. Here is some data from a natural grass turf company's website: Here is some independent research from university hospitals: Researchers identified a total of 953 injuries during the 2017-2018 athletic seasons, with 585 of them occurring on synthetic turf and 368 on natural grass. Researchers then performed subgroup analysis to determine injuries that took place on artificial turf versus natural grass based on injury location (lower extremity, upper extremity, torso), sport, level of competitive play (freshman, junior varsity, varsity), and practice versus competition injuries.https://www.uhhospitals.org/for-clinicians/articles-and-news/articles/2019/08/artificial-turf-versus-natural-grass While I can not find an article (in 10 minutes of extensive google research) that supports the artificial surface, the main concern I see is climate. How often you have to re-sod grass fields. https://www.startribune.com/on-football-keeping-nfl-playing-surfaces-safe-grass-or-not/572993322/

Yeah, after reading KBs post and doing some monkish meditation, I can't pick many players that won't contribute-so I thought I would share my thoughts. Many of these will be role players, but if you give them a season or two, I see five to seven starters (or key rotational players that get about 50% of snaps). I will put the potential/likely eventual starters (at some point in 2021) in green. I will put the players that could have key roles by 2022 (starting or rotational) in blue: 1. Horn---duh. He will start as CB1. The farther the draft gets behind us, the more I like this pick and understand it. Watching him at rookie camp, he is an alpha. Combine him with Chinn, we will have 2. 2. Marshall---a first round talent who will be WR3. We will use WR3 a lot, and I expect Marshall to be that guy who can beat anyone the defense has for a WR3--like Samuel last year, but I think Marshall is an upgrade because we also got another rookie I like (spoiler alert) Shi Smith. 3. Christensen---We all want the LT question answered, and it is possible that Christensen is that LT due to his athleticism, but remember, we played Gross at RT his rookie season, Ryan Kalil at G, Moton on short yardage sets. It takes time, so they do not need to rush the process. I think he is an eventual all pro LG, and I think (in the back of his head) Rhule sees that too. Elflein better learn center. Does that mean LT is still a problem? Well, sorta but I think we have some options there (Erving, Scott, even Daley and Little) that if we improve both G spots, we will be better up front--and do not forget the significance of Tremble. 4. Tremble---If we can focus on blocking edge rushers on the blind side, and if we are confident our G play is much better, and if we have more people to cover than they have in their defensive backfield, the LT problem is minimized. On top of that, Tremble will be awesome as a blocking TE, decent as a receiving TE, and awesome on special teams. He makes us better 3 ways while helping the LT. 5. Hubbard---while not a name we easily remember when reflecting on the draft, a player capable of keeping CMC fresh and off the exercise bike is important. He is a RB/pass catching back, but if his pass blocking does not improve, his action will be limited. I was not happy with this pick with better players at need positions on the board. Rhule, if you wife calls or texts during the draft, ignore her. 6. Nixon---maybe the best value of the draft (don't tell that to 6th round Deonte Brown). Nixon has the alpha gene as well, the swag, etc. and the tape to prove it. He is a player we needed--a 3T to play beside Brown and Roy and rotate in with DaQuan Jones. I love this pick in round 5. WHAT? He will make the team and play. 7. K. Taylor---another long CB that looked good at the SR bowl. His Washington tape is not that impressive, but maybe the coaching and fit was better in Mobile and Rhule saw what he likes. Do not expect to see him play a lot in 2021; we will have Bouye and Melvin and Pride, and Jackson, and Horn--but Taylor will likely be playing for a spot in 2022. If he plays well in practice and in limited duty, no need to re-sign or extend a few 1-year or final year contracts. We are likely to let Melvin go (if he makes the team) and may not re-sign Jackson if Taylor balls out. Bouye is on a 2-year deal, so 2022 would be solid if Taylor steps up. So be patient with him, but pay attention. 8. D. Brown---a potential starting RG in round 6. Miller was acceptable last year, but by no means should be shopping for houses in Charlotte. Brown has proven to be intelligent and is showing self discipline. He weighed about 370 on Rhule's team at the SR Bowl, and I think that scared teams away--I avoided him in my mocks anyway. Let's say all we did to upgrade the OL was improve RG and LG and depth--but I think we did more. Brown could bust, but I do not see it. I think he catches on and starts by the end of the season. 9. S. Smith---WR4 with some of the best hands you will see. A steal in the sixth round, dropped because he was on a bad team with a bad QB. He will fit the possession WR role as a slot, but he can do more. Special teams ace too. We have never been this LOADED at WR. The star of the SR Bowl--and I expect him to have a gradually-increasing role here. You may see Moore stealing some snaps early on, but when the light comes on for Smith, Moore drops to WR5. 10. Thomas Fletcher---I do not evaluate hikers, but there could be a method to this madness none of us has considered. Have you watched the kickers/punters in practice? They share a long snapper. Maybe stashing Fletcher on the PS would give them 2 long-snappers and allow the punter and kicker (Slye) to get more work at practice. I dunno. I just can't see us letting JJ go. JJ is on a one-year deal. 11. Hoskins-- Probably a PS DT to develop and plug in if we have an injury, assuming he makes it. He is at 280, so maybe his role is to be that developmental, run stuffing end or that pass rushing 3T. I dunno what the plan is for him. UNDRAFTED Free Agents: We have 2 that could make the team and contribute. 1. Moore: I know Moore is a massive G, but he seems smart, and he would be an ideal candidate to develop for a season behind Paradis to take over at C. Elflein could play there, but his stint at C in the past was not great, and I doubt they really want Erving there. Moore could be the starting center in 2022. What a steal if that happens---or he could be the LG if Christensen stays at LT. 2. Fisher: Fisher is a 2-down, run-stuffing thumper who is likely to remain a backup and special teamer, but we really do not have that player in the middle that makes RBs switch to soccer. Perryman has been hurt a lot, and it is a long season. Fisher is limited, but what he can do, he does well. Think AJ Klein-stuffs C gap to C gap, but when you need to cover or go sideline to sideline, he stuffs C gap to C gap.

I had a logic attack and it told me that Jones passed on him twice in the draft for a LB and a CB-while the Dallas defense sucked last year, I get it, but he could have made that trade on draft day, and did not pull it off-any time before pick 59.

The best goalie we had on the punt return team.

Gotta go with Keary Colbert here. Nah, I could not stand his overrated cocky arse.

Have not read the whole thread, but I loved Travelle Wharton as a player and person.

Looks like somebody let the Falcons' cheerleaders in to graze. Lock the gates, people!!!

Jarrod Cooper---he is on my list too

Going old School: Rucker Menter Proehl Berlein Hoover Kasay Jarod Cooper Bates

KB, we should temper expectations, but dang, our pool of draftees is possibly effective. Our sixth rounder could very reasonably and practically start at RG at some point. Our third rounder is a possible starter. Of course, Horn and Marshall will play key roles. Tremble? How will we keep him off the field, especially if we do not keep a FB? I am very convinced that we will see 7-9 of these drafted rookies on the field every game. How well will they do? Dunno. But I would lean closer to 5-6 than 2-3. Horn and Marshall are first round talents who will play at a high level and do well. Christensen? Not sure--RG is his fastest path, but he could roll into LT as a rookie at some point. Tremble and Brown are the other two that I think may tip the scales toward 5---- And I am not going to even mention the long snapper situation.

Jimmy, I was just throwing it out there to give us something to chew on in May, but there is something to both sides of the argument that makes it very interesting to debate. You are bringing some good stuff to the table, and so are the people who oppose your perspectives. I may be sick, (confirmed) but I love a debate that has no winner--