MHS831

Hats off to BP-again.

39 years of QBs from Ohio State University drafted to play in the NFL. 37 TOTAL NFL wins. The best QB they produced on the NFL level (Tomczak) was a 55% passer in college with more interceptions than TDs. That QB, undrafted, managed to get more NFL wins than all other Ohio St. QBs drafted during the past 39 years. This is the same school that caused Burrow to transfer to LSU--and in 10 games with the Bengals he won 2 games--if he had not been hurt and was QB when the Bengals won all four games in 2020, he would have tied the CAREER TOTALS for the top drafted QBs at Ohio St since 1982. THAT is how good OSU QBs have been. Let that sink in. Not to say that Fields is not going to succeed, they are due. Darnold goes to the worst football team in the NFL, a program who has not had a successful QB since Namath, if you dont count Richard Todd, and I dont. Now you are going back 50 years. And he sucks, but Fields is the messiah? Not sure I follow that logic.

So yes, both programs could do better--but to equate them for the sake of argument is self-serving and wrong. Like comparing a firecracker to hand grenade and saying, "They both blew up." Here is the stat you need to defend: In the past 39 years (since 1982 with first round selection Art Schichter) there have been 10 Ohio State Quarterbacks drafted into the NFL--of those, only 1 (Kent Graham, drafted in the eighth round) has more than 4 career NFL victories. Mike Tomsczak was not drafted (1985), and he has more wins than all of the other 10 drafted OSU quarterbacks combined. And of all 11 OSU QBs who played QB in the NFL since 1982, they accumulated a total of 79 wins. That means in the past 39 years, Ohio State QBs average 2 wins among all 32 teams per season---thanks to undrafted Mike Tomzczak--who contributed half of them--the rest? 1 game per season. Carson Palmer alone had 92 wins. Matt Cassell--a backup at USC--had 36 NFL wins--one less than all 10 OSU drafted QBs over that period of time. Rodney Peete? 45 wins. So I can take the top 3 USC QBs since 1986 and get 173 NFL victories--nearly 100 more NFL victories in the NFL in that span of time. So they are not really close. And remarkably, there is this: https://www.nfl.com/news/pipelines-to-the-pros-quarterbacks

At about the 1:00-1:11 minute mark, Chinn intercepts a Foles pass deep in Panther territory. Boston, celebrates by pointing the wrong direction.

The point here is not to discredit Fields--I wanted him before we signed Darnold--I wanted a few of the rookie QBs . But to act like an OHIO ST QB is the savior to turn around the program is like expecting Trevor Noah to say something unpredictably funny. It is to show people a few things--1) An average QB in a good system can look great; 2) a good QB in a bad system can look bad. Some have been crying about passing on Fields as if he is a sure fire pro bowler--where if that happens, it would certainly defy about 100 years of Buckeye tradition and trashing Darnold because he did not play well in a bad system with a bad coach. But then to defend the OSU qbs, I get, "Well there were many coaches and many systems..." So they matter in college, but not in the NFL? Just an interesting look at the draft--there was risk, but nobody can say that drafting Fields would have been better than trading for Darnold. Risk on both sides.

Could you argue that North Dakota State University has produced better NFL QBs than Ohio State?

Well, I am discrediting the pipeline, not the player---he was not on the list. And during the draft, isnt that all we do?

It really is amazing--Oregon before last year had a bunch of busts all the back to Fouts. Bama QBs? Namath. UCLA--after Aikman? It used to be Miami and Maryland, remember that far back? Now you can throw Clemson, NC State (Gabriel, Rivers, and a bunch of low-end starters), etc.

Should have been more clear--by not drafting Fields like so many wanted to do so--well, if you look at history, Fields would have to be the exception to a pretty consistent rule--although he may do well, they said the same thing about several other OSU QBs like Miller, Pryor, Smith, and Haskins--even Jones to some.

Well, Carson Palmer was pretty good--and I am only asking if there is an OSU QB you would trade for Sam Darnold (a USC QB) if they were both 24. That alone suggests USC QBs are better if you can't.

I asked a simple question--who would you trade for? The rest is an inference as to what this means, one made by you, not me. Since Palmer and Darnold and I would argue Peete are better than anyone on the OSU list to date--the point to be made is--USC QBs have been mostly busts, but their top 3 are better than OSU's best.

Perhaps this makes you feel a little better: Ohio State QBs that played in NFL: Don Scott Johnny Borton Dave Leggett Frank Kremblas Ron Maciejowski Greg Hare Cornelius Greene Art Schlichter Jim Karsatos Tom Tupa Kent Graham Bobby Hoying Joe Germaine Steve Bellisari Craig Krenzel Troy Smith Terrelle Pryor Braxton Miller Cardale Jones Dwayne Haskins Remember, many of these were first rounders--franchise saviors. So here is the challenge: Pick ONE of the QBs from Ohio State's all time QB list who you'd trade for Darnold if both were age 24. Make a lengthy list if necessary. Use an extra sheet of paper if you need to do so.

Watched the video. Horn is an alpha and he was the best on the video. Shaaawing

If you value character, you value its impact on your life, your family, your spheres of influence. You described a situation after you used the word "if" that is not aligned with success in the NFL. And cultural problems--bad locker rooms, bad publicity (answering questions about the crap every time there is a presser) wears you down. Don't mock the "brand". Your name should mean something to you because in a word it summarizes all you are about--it is all you have, if you think about it. If you do not value it, if you do not think character and pride and winning are connected, hit "reset" and try again.

Great point, and that lineup cost us a Super Bowl, fwiw, but still, we did it with a huge, athletic QB who could take a pounding and he did. With a running QB, you are less aggressive in pass rush, so we could maybe get away with it. And Byron Bell is left handed--there is that. Erving and Scott were slightly below average LTs in 2020, but Erving was a bit injured in 2020. Scott played beside a bad LG and only played a third of the snaps. Both in new systems, both performed fairly well, considering. In the list you provided, I would say that Erving and Scott were on the Oher level, better than the others. This from a Dallas website: Erving is a versatile offensive lineman that can compete at guard and play both tackle spots. Though he struggled with injuries of his own, he was solid in his one season with Dallas. In five games played, Erving allowed just one sack and eight total pressures.... To put that into perspective, he allowed a pressure on just 5% of his pass-blocking snaps. Brandon Knight allowed a pressure on 7.1% of his snaps. All-Pro Guard Zack Martin allowed a pressure on 7.7% of his snaps.

Gonna be the best story of camp/preseason.

Rivera said (about moving Byron Bell to left tackle). “But the biggest thing we keep forgetting is, he's a natural left-hander"

"A punt is not necessarily a bad play." "At the end of the day, it is what it is." And this dark one, "Never Forget." (a reference to a bracelet Rae Carruth wears to remind him what over 18 years in prison was like). He is not referring to Cherica Adams, the mother of his child that was murdered, or what he had done to Chancellor Lee, his son that he caused to have permanent brain damage and cerebral palsy--he was referring to the loss of his freedom.

Let me just say this--the better the OL in the middle and the right side, the better your LT will be. It limits the options. Let's say Erving is the LT just because he is. Scott is behind him. Elflein and Christensen become the LGs. Paradis and Moore are centers (Elflein, Irving depth too), Miller and Brown are at RG, and Moton with Scott and Daley behind him at RT. On paper, we are better at EVERY OL position. With CMC and Chuba running the ball, with much better TEs, and with the best WR corps the team has ever had, I think we can cover LT for a year.

I am starting to agree. Maybe Moton is slated for LT, but there are no signs that point that way. AND if you know Moton is solid at RT and you are strong up the middle, you can chip and use a FB/HBack to help a LT with a speed rusher. For example, Tremble lines up on the wing--the LT knows that he blocks head up to inside gap. If there is nobody there, he could get a call to help the G. If there is help inside, he only takes outside and simply pushes the rush out. Taking on a speed edge rusher who can bull rush or go rip under or go around is a lot to ask the best LT. So we could be looking at support personnel and scheme as much as the player.

This is a bit hypocritical because I would wager that you have more experience in choir and twitter than you do an NFL locker room. 3 hours on the field for 17 Sundays is a small amount of time. As I mentioned earlier--the team has a brand--and the people you support and hire reflect your values. Your friends do, your wife does, even your place of employment. So save the chest pounding. We all know the game and nobody has annointed you as the sage of all that is the NFL. We understand winning, but some do it with character within a system. If you don't understand the importance of character in the process of developing a WINNING culture, you are likely to not understand these points--so bye.

That last spot is for Watson or Rodgers. Probably. Not.

because they signed 2 and cut 3?

Folks--the Panthers are a BRAND. No person, no win is worth tarnishing the BRAND. "It's just business." Investors, PSL sales, your impact in the community (which leads to tax dollars for stadiums, etc in a small market)--what more do you need? If he were to undergo therapy for a year, publicly apologize, etc. maybe then, but I would vote against it. Think Subway and Jared. Something that would never happen: Hardees: "All we have is that stupid star for a mascot. What about Jared? He is young and was great selling subs...."

Keep Pounding! Ice up son. Wrong thread? or is it? You decide.