MHS831

I dunno--who gives you the best chance? I stay with the hot hand, personally. Wasn't Wentz good to go when Foles got hot in Philly a few years back?

This is an interesting discussion--how much of his success was of his own doing? That is the question--nobody really knows.

That is what I am saying. Cam was QB for less time and did better (except was robbed in the Super Bowl, but should have won that if it were not for a bad RT (Remmers) and OC--(Shula). Just speculating for fun--who knows? Payton got robbed by the refs one year--maybe 2.

Name a great coach who never had a good QB. Name a great QB who never had a great coach. To me, the best coaches today are in Seattle (Pete won with Wilson, who is a different QB now), SF (Garrapolo? Purdy?) and maybe (too early to tell) Detroit and Miami. They won despite their QBs. Payton had one of the best of all time and he had a good GM. He won 1 super bowl. Should he have done better?

The bottom line? What do we know about Payton as a coach? He had 1 year without Brees (2021) and that did not go well. Payton really did not with Brees. He used him well--but what did NO do with Winston? Brees' first year in New Orleans was Payton's first as a coach--2006. Brees left in 2020--Payton left in 2021. He did not really develop Winston, but he sorta was creative with Taysom Hill (because he did not have a QB?) and since had a few NFL nomads like Teddy, Dalton, etc. So Payton's career was directly tied to Drew Brees. When Brees retired, Payton stayed for a season and got out. His record was 152-89-0. So, aside from Bountygate, what do we really know about him? He had a good GM. Can Payton sail the ship with no Brees? (see what I did there?) The more I dig, the more I think, "fool's gold" (see, the Saints and their fans are fools and they have gold helmets. I am on fire)

Horizontally (If watching from the press box). Vertically, he had much more yardage. Ok, so I am an optimist. Scuze me.

This is a good point--and the measure Tepper should be considering. At that SF game, I was embarrassed that a team from 3000 miles away would have their colors throughout my team's stadium.

I guess we can assume that we already KNOW Payton is a good coach (although with Drew Brees, I could look good) but with Steichen, we have to predict that he will be one. I am not sure Tepper wants to risk another experiment. To consider the cost of surrendering a first rounder, you must also consider how much Payton will make the existing players better. (For example, a star basketball player may score 40 points and grab 10 rebounds, but if the production of his teammates drop off when he plays, is he really a star player?) I think Payton makes players better because he knows how to use them. Think YGM, Chinn, Marshall, and our QB... Now consider the actual value of a first round draft pick. I found this on a Vikings board and it is interesting: "Overall, only about two dozen players every draft will go on to have significant careers performing at a high level. That’s not a lot - less than one genuinely good player per team each year." https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-pick-bust-rate-remains-very-high So if Payton makes good players great and mediocre players good, is he worth the draft pick? I do not like surrendering a pick for a coach, but it could make sense if you look at his impact on other players. A good coach puts players in position to succeed; a bad coach sets them up for failure.

Interesting. If he wants us, he sees something. Maybe it is because our owner is rich and gives big contracts, but I think it is less about money than it is about his ego. He sees the NFC South as a place he can dominate with a QB.

OR

What is she doing in the room?

What cracks me up about this is Wilson's arrogance. He SUCKED this year, and he is the personification of a bad trade/contract. The Cards and the Broncos are in similar situations--the Broncos being the worst. Its between Houston and Carolina, and I think Houston is the best option for him. He can go in, draft a qb, and turn it around immediately. Houston's 2023 draft: First-round pick (own) SECOND OVERALL Probably a QB. First-round pick (via Cleveland in Deshaun Watson trade) 12 th OVERALL (This is the pick they would probably ship to New Orleans) Second-round pick (own) Third-round pick (own) Third-round pick (via Cleveland in Deshaun Watson trade) Fourth-round pick (own) Fifth-round pick (own) Sixth-round pick (own) Sixth-round pick (via Vikings in Ross Blacklock trade) Sixth-round pick (via Saints in Bradley Roby trade) Sixth-round pick (via Giants in Keion Crossen trade)

People need to remember, we have average TEs--we need a threat at the position. To me, Kincaid is the best receiving TE but his blocking is not good (yet), but Mayer is the total package. Hard for any team with needs to consider trading up, but mediocrity happens when you draft mediocre players. If we could get 2 first round talents at QB and TE in this draft, I would be pretty excited.

I see the Texans in his future. They have draft picks to spend and the Saints would approve a deal in the AFC before the NFC South. Does he like the city of Houston? Well, he liked New Orleans.

You are right--my mistake. I was thinking 23-24 instead of 22-23.

I think they gave their firsts and seconds from 2023 and 2024. The first in 2023 is from SF, so it will be late, and it will have to be used for Payton.

Sean, come to a team with a late first this year (which would go to the Saints) and no second, no first or second next year. $160m salary is guaranteed to a 35-year old short qb with a 2022 QB rating of 37.0 (ranked 27th in the league). The other QBs in the division: Herbert and Mahomes--and maybe Carr. Russell Salary and poor performance + no draft picks + elite competition at QB in the division. Sounds too good to be true.

I see him going around 20 or so. I would love him with the 2 seconds.

Probably.

Actually, in the story, his main character, Gregor, I believe, transitions from a human to a giant roach. Not the best metaphor after all.

Want some literary irony? Franz Kafka was a German-speaking Bohemian writer who is famous for his novella, "The Metamorphosis." Metamorphosis means to transition from immaturity to maturity. I used to teach English Lit back in the day. Discuss.

But in the case of Watson and Stafford's contracts, it may be a good thing he was played. As outsiders, we do not know who walked away--if you are in on every deal, you might get played once in a while. Part of it.

But if they allowed the Panthers to talk to him, it seems that the compensation is all that is left to discuss. Maybe the Panthers get the "NFC South" rate.

But then we'd have to not believe this if it was read aloud, or half of it if read silently? I am so confused!

about giving up assets to get a good coach---a good coach gets the most out of players. he has an eye for talent and knows how it fits his system. Better than drafting good players and not knowing how to use them, not developing them. I look at 2 panther second rounders who are not being used to their full potential: Chinn and Marshall. Bring in Payton, and suddenly these players get better. I imagine the plan would be to use the second rounders and the first this year to trade up and grab a QB, giving up this year's third or fourth and next year's first rounder. That would give Payton a young QB to develop and we will have cap room moving forward, so the pick is not that big of a deal. Just analyzing the situation---not as unrealistic as it sounds.