Bad Hurney Contracts: Who's Left?

[TheRed]

My way of thinking is we can't hold the current GM and his staff to blame for mistakes before Gettleman got here. I realize our scouts and most of the FO is the same. But Gettleman has changed our scouting agency to BLESTO and brought new ideas to our FO. 

 

Based on the way Steve's release was handled I get the feeling Rivera doesn't make many decisions.

 

You can't blame everything currently happening on Hurney, and you can't blame it all on Gettleman either. The past is the past.

 

We're now closing in on the year 2015, I'm through with built in excuses, enough is enough, and that goes for the entire front office/staff.

[thefuzz]

Something always can be done in this league if you want it done.

We didn't have to enter this season with Bell and Chandler as starters.

I also said all offseason our Gs were just as bad as T.

You honestly telling me we couldn't of done something? We were forced to start 2nd/3rd string talent at every spot but C?

May not have a healthy QB to extend when all is said and done.

May also have a QB flex his muscle....always said letting Cam sniff that 5th year was dangerous. He has options at that point and will know it....if he wants to be like that. He could force things.

Never liked the Hardy tag to begin with.

 

 

Explain in detail, and with cap figures both this year, and the following two, what exactly should have been done at the T position.

 

 

Cam will have no leverage, just like every other 1st rounder after the new CBA.  We could use the 5th next year, and the tag for the two following.  That would give us 3 years to build around him, sign him longterm, or move on after you use him up.

[thefuzz]

I would not compare the situations of Smith/Beason/Dwill/Stewart to that of Ryan Kalil. He's a great locker room guy, and he's healthy.

 

Again, there's really no use for us to converse. You've completely deviated from the original discussion so I guess we're done.

 

 

Why not, they are done, and will be done to create cap space and get younger....exactly why I said that Kalil could be a cap casualty after next season.

 

He will carry a cap hit of 10.3 and a dead number of 5.9, he will also be 31 years old.  If you make him a June 1, you can spread that 5.9 over two seasons.

 

 

I didn't say that he would be cut, just that he could, and if you pay attention to anything in the NFL, you have to realize that is a real possibility.

[TheRed]

"Cam will have no leverage", lol what.

 

He's only our entire offense. He has virtually no OL, and no run game. But no, he's got no leverage here guys, move along.

[thefuzz]

"Cam will have no leverage", lol what.

 

He's only our entire offense. He has virtually no OL, and no run game. But no, he's got no leverage here guys, move along.

 

How long have you been following football?

 

 

Do you know how much leverage the players have under the current CBA?

 

 

He will have no leverage, especially if he is talking about holding out, or getting moved to another team, it's just how it is these days.  We can have him under contract all of this season, and the next two, and there is nothing he can do about it.

 

Do you think that he, or is agent want to play 45 or so games over the next 3 years without a long term contract?

 

 

He will get the deal that he deserves, but he won't be holding out (briefly if at all) or getting shipped out (unless the FO wants to do that).

[CRA]

Explain in detail, and with cap figures both this year, and the following two, what exactly should have been done at the T position.

Cam will have no leverage, just like every other 1st rounder after the new CBA. We could use the 5th next year, and the tag for the two following. That would give us 3 years to build around him, sign him longterm, or move on after you use him up.

Again, it wasn't just tackle. G too.

We have 3rd stringers and 2nd string talent at both T and G spots. We were not helpless. We elected it.....most likely just choosing the well we have Cam and he did great with slop last year and he will survive in the short term with even worse.

I'm not going to waste my time talking cap numbers. Cap can always be manipulated. It is just a game really. Yes it can limit you and it is us. No, it doesn't force you to have an OL like ours. We choose to be comically weak....didn't have to be. Look at Hardy's cap hit. I don't endorse building a D with over investment at any one spot....and Hardy has always been too looney toons to feel comfortable with big money. Even if he didn't have his incident odds were high was going to walk and we get nothing at the end of the day.....should acted. We will get nothing for Hardy. That isn't smart.

Cam certainly could have leverage. Once a guy is feed up, wants out, or wants to flex muscle .....tagging him and building around him would be going backwards. I mean that brings up so many issues....building around and playing with a QB flexing his muscle to get out?

Cam sees that 5th year he would be the first of his kind to do so.....he will be unique. All he has to do is say he won't sign and extension and wants out. Carolina can say we will tag you.....but now they haves disgruntled "QB" who they rely almost exclusively on to sacrifice his body in a no traditional way. It would just be nightmare clusterfluck.

[thefuzz]

Again, it wasn't just tackle. G too.

We have 3rd stringers and 2nd string talent at both T and G spots. We were not helpless. We elected it.....most likely just choosing the well we have Cam and he did great with slop last year and he will survive in the short term with even worse.

I'm not going to waste my time talking cap numbers. Cap can always be manipulated. It is just a game really. Yes it can limit you and it is us. No, it doesn't force you to have an OL like ours. We choose to be comically weak....didn't have to be.

Cam certainly could have leverage. Once a guy is feed up, wants out, or wants to flex muscle .....tagging him and building around him would be going backwards. I mean that brings up so many issues....building around and playing with a QB flexing his muscle to get out?

Cam sees that 5th year he would be the first of his kind to do so.....he will be unique. All he has to do is say he won't sign and extension and wants out. Carolina can say we will tag you.....but now they haves disgruntled "QB" who they rely almost exclusively on to sacrifice his body in a no traditional way. It would just be nightmare clusterfluck.

 

I understand that the G as as bad as the T position, that's why I only asked you to look up one of them, and not "waste your time looking up cap numbers" which sounds as dumb as it gets.

 

DG's entire goal has been to clean up the mess left to him, not create more mess, and get this team on a path....signing overrated G's and T's so you can have a shot at the playoffs this year but not able to sign Cam or Luke is absurd.

 

The cap can be manipulated, and New Orleans and Denver are doing so as we speak.  However the chickens will come home to roost at some point.  Each of those teams has a HOF QB that is mid to late 30's and have 1 or 2 more shots at the playoffs.  We are young at the QB position, and if we play our cards right we will be able to control the NFC South for 3-5 years....just not yet.

 

 

Yes, tagging Cam would get nasty, and it would be a clusterfug, but that's what will happen if his contract demands are way too high, or he want's out.  He doesn't have leverage, he will have to play, or will never sign a big contract in the NFL.

[CRA]

How long have you been following football?

Do you know how much leverage the players have under the current CBA?

He will have no leverage, especially if he is talking about holding out, or getting moved to another team, it's just how it is these days. We can have him under contract all of this season, and the next two, and there is nothing he can do about it.

Do you think that he, or is agent want to play 45 or so games over the next 3 years without a long term contract?

He will get the deal that he deserves, but he won't be holding out (briefly if at all) or getting shipped out (unless the FO wants to do that).

You do realize Newton seeing that 5th year makes him the first....and only.

You really think a team wants to pay an uninterested QB/leader tag money....that openly wants out? Oh, but I guess he will still play hard and comically sacrifice his body, lead, etc....that would be paying millions and handicapping your team for someone to play with the "wants out" mindset at the one position that touches the ball every snap.

You can just tag/pay and automarically get leadership, effort, etc for it. That is the leverage. Leverage is you handicap your team with the tag.....and the disgruntled player makes life hard and disruptive. Wouldn't work at QB. Cam has muscle if he wanted out....it wouldn't be pretty but he has it

[thefuzz]

You do realize Newton seeing that 5th year makes him the first....and only.

You really think a team wants to pay an uninterested QB/leader tag money....that openly wants out? Oh, but I guess he will still play hard and comically sacrifice his body, lead, etc....that would be paying millions and handicapping your team for someone to play with the "wants out" mindset at the one position that touches the ball every snap.

You can just tag/pay and automarically get leadership, effort, etc for it. That is the leverage. Leverage is you handicap your team with the tag.....and the disgruntled player makes life hard and disruptive. Wouldn't work at QB. Cam has muscle if he wanted out....it wouldn't be pretty but he has it

 

 

You don't understand.  If Cam pulls that crap, the other teams see it too.  No one will rush to his door after 7 years in a Carolina uniform and throw him a 100M dollar contract if shits the bed, or causes issues.

 

 

He can use all the muscle he wants, and try to force himself out, but all it will do in the end is cost him money and years in a long term deal.

[TheRed]

thefuzz blasts others for having no idea how being a gm actually works, yet speaks as if players are simply numbers and not real individuals. You cannot simply remove the real life variables from a situation of tagging a possibly disgruntled QB and how they impact the team.

 

CRA is certainly making credible points.

 

If fans can see that Newton is carrying a clearly flawed offense with little help, other teams can obviously also see that.

 

If you think a number of general managers in the NFL would not jump at the opportunity to acquire him, you are beyond reasoning with.

[thefuzz]

thefuzz blasts others for having no idea how being a gm actually works, yet speaks as if players are simply numbers and not real individuals. You cannot simply remove the real life variables from a situation of tagging a possibly disgruntled QB and how they impact the team.

 

CRA is certainly making credible points.

 

If fans can see that Newton is carrying a clearly flawed offense with little help, other teams can obviously also see that.

 

If you think a number of general managers in the NFL would not jump at the opportunity to acquire him, you are beyond reasoning with.

 

If you are going to talk to or about me please quote me.

 

 

There is no other issue, and as a GM you can't think about how hurt a players feelings are when it comes to business.

 

 

If Cam wants too much money, or decides he wants out, the only logical solution is the only one at hand.  You tag him until you can't, and then move on.  There is no grey area.

 

 

Of course other GM's and HC's see how good Cam is, that only solidifies my stance on it.  If Cam walks into DG's office and demands to be the highest paid QB in the league, with the most guaranteed money in NFL history, DG will say thanks, and I will get back at you at any point over the next 45 or so football games.  He will be wearing a Panthers uniform for the next 3 seasons, minimum, unless the FO decided to trade him.  (not likely)

[Who Said What?]

Bullshit. I won't judge you because I don't know how old you are, but that was literally what he was known for for years.

 

With his push them back way back theory.  Sign player to huge deal.  When its time to pay him restructure and push the payday farther back.  After doing that a couple of times, cut said player and eat dead money.  That was Hurney's formula and people are mad because now we are letting players get some of their payday and cutting them loose. 

 

Its a huge shite sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite.

[carpanfan96]

How long have you been following football?

Do you know how much leverage the players have under the current CBA?

He will have no leverage, especially if he is talking about holding out, or getting moved to another team, it's just how it is these days. We can have him under contract all of this season, and the next two, and there is nothing he can do about it.

Do you think that he, or is agent want to play 45 or so games over the next 3 years without a long term contract?

He will get the deal that he deserves, but he won't be holding out (briefly if at all) or getting shipped out (unless the FO wants to do that).

Cam would make over 55 million during those seasons, If the Panthers play him under the 5th year option and franchise tag him in back to back seasons. On top of that, all of it would be fully guaranteed. That's leverage, if any thing ever was.

As for his contract value, Cook is going to ask for Cam to be the Highest paid QB, with the most guaranteed money.

All the proof you need to know, thats going to happen, is too look at Jay Cutler's 7 year 127 million dollar deal and yes cam's will be worth more.

[DaveThePanther2008]

What I want to know is how bad of cap hell we will we be strapped with going forward?  When this season is over I assume some of the damage will have gone away.

 

What does letting Godfrey go do to us?

 

What is the end of the Hurney F- job.