RE: Anti-Cam Douchenozzles

[Diehardpanther02]

I don't understand why this whole forum is ready to fire everyone, from JR all the way down to the guy that hoists the net on field goals, and everybody says "HELL YEAH!!". But if somebody simply critiques a part of Newtons game, or talks about his upcoming contract, it becomes so toxic. I really don't understand!

Cuz newton is not the problem, actually its pretty simple. Ron n shula gotta go, jerry can stay cuz he loves the panthers n brought us a team to charlotte regardless if hes lifeless. Changes have to be made on this team and i believe their will be.

[Swaggasaurus]

Derek Carr, a rookie for the 1-11 even larger dumpster fire Oakland Raiders has a higher completion percentage, 3 more TD, 1 less fumble, and the same number of interceptions on 77 more pass attempts. His WR are James Jones, Andre Homes and Vincent Brown and a TE far less capable than Olsen. His oline is def better than ours so on to the next comparison. A 74.4 rating.

Blake Bortles for the 2-10 Jaguars with two fewer starts, has a higher completion percentage, 9 TD, 15 interceptions, but two less fumbles. His rotating cast of injured WR include Cecil Shorts and two rookies, Allen Hurns and Marquise Lee, and a TE named Clay Harbor. Sacked 34 times, two less than Cam, with two fewer games played, how's his protection? A 72.2 rating

Compare Cam to Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning? um no.. Compare him to dumpster fire teams with rookie QB's and you'll find more tangible evidence that actually aligns with exactly what it looks like on the field. This isn't some goofie stat collection to support that Cam has been this bad, IMO the stats and eye test line up perfectly.

tell em....still looking for the retort on this one

[mc52beast]

Alright Cam detractors, it's time to put on your nippleshorts and loosen up your armchair GM keyboard fingers. Especially you, Dex. You specifically stated great QB's win games and there are no excuses for Cam. I'm all ears, explain this for us "homer squad" idiots.

1)

Pick an elite QB of your choice:

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

2)

Around mid-April, cut open his left ankle and stretch the ligaments around. Then sit him out the entire offseason as he recovers from major surgery.

3)

Around the 3rd preseason game, take a baseball bat & beat him in the back and/or chest until you crack a few ribs under his throwing arm.

4)

Give him Mike Shula as an OC & playcaller.

5)

Protect his blindside with Byron Bell.

6)

Round out his OL with the following:

LG: Revolving door of D2 & FA Guards

RG: Canadian League washouts

RT: Undrafted DT & Practice Squad castaways

7)

Give him the following WR weapons:

WR #1: very gifted, yet very raw rookie

WR #2: Jerricho Cotchery

WR #3: undrafted rookies

8)

Give him the 29th ranked scoring defense.

9)

Throw him under center week 2.

10)

Win games.

No excuses.

"That's what great QB's do."

So tell me... if you are Dave Gettleman, how much money do you throw at Cam Newton? 

[MHS831]

One key difference between the situations with Luck, Ben, and Rivers right now compared to Cam? They have coaching staffs in place who are able to get the most out of their quarterbacks while also, important to note here, actually developing them as passers also.

 

Watching our offense this year, one thing sticks out to me over everything else. There is literally no room for error. Period. The Cam Newton we saw to start the season is the Cam Newton that our staff should be developing him into. I fear they are simply incapable of that.

 

You can't simply look at Newton's numbers and rankings from one season in a vaccum and just say "welp, I guess he sucks".

 

Based on his first 3 years, where he gradually improved statistically each season, common sense should tell you that one year where the whole team is struggling while he was given a makeshift OL, and an entirely new WR group while recovering from injuries is not the norm.

 

I never said., ""Well, I guess he sucks." I said, "We do not know what we have in Cam  Newton."  The theory behind QBs who bust is they were drafted by bad teams.  However, some of the QBs I mentioned above immediately made their teams better.  Luck, after a year of Painter, turned tragedy into prosperity with the same basic players.  Rivers was drafted by a terrible team.  Numbers from one season do not make a QB, but they do not say, "Lets pay this guy elite money" either.  Cam has been good in spots, but how often has he had to take the team on his back and carry them for 4 quarters like the qbs above have had to do?  Even last year, when we were 12-4, the defense kept us in games until Cam and the offense figured it out.   So while I see tremendous talent in Cam, I have not seen enough to call him elite--nobody has.  Even in seasons previous to this one, he was never in the top 10--that is the top third of the league.  You don't pay second contracts of $120 on potential and gut feelings--or excuses.  You pay top dollar for proven performance.  That is my only point.  Not trashing Cam--just not crowning him either.

[WOW!!]

I agree with the last part.  I also agree that Cam's support system is a factor in analyzing his impact--I said it very clearly.  It is so bad that we do not know what we have in a qb.  I could not have made it more clear. 

 

Other QBs who have struggled through adversity---Luck, Rivers, Ben--I mentioned them.  None have had their WR corps removed, but they have had injuries leave them with nothing. I never said they had their entire WR corps leave and you are suggesting that is worse than any other conditions the others endured.  I am not claiming that gutting the WR corps was advantageous, but I am not claiming that it has been a disaster either.  He needs 200 yards per game to match last year's passing yardage production, and Cam did not play in week 1. Benjamin already has more yards than Smitty with 4 to play. Cotchery is actually on pace to break Lafell's total last year, and Brown/Bersin should come close to Ginn's numbers.  So what did we lose?  Gutting the roster is also called attrition and free agency--it was necessary due to contract demands and production vs. the money each would get to stay.  They are new to other systems and they are doing very well there. 

 

In 2013, The Colts finished 11-5 and won the division with a rookie WR (Hilton), a late-round TE (Fleener) and Heyward Bey for most of the season.  The OL has always been suspect, and the Running game stalled because the OL was suspect.  It was all Luck in his second season.   23 TDs, 9 INTs and a division title.  This year, he took the next step, and he is the leading QB in the NFL.  Nobody made excuses for Luck because they didn't have to.

 

Last year, when Gross was here, Wharton, Kalil-not a terrible line--probably average---when Smitty, Lafell, and Ginn were here--the gutted trio--the offense was ranked 25th.  This year it is ranked 21st.    We relied on the second-ranked defense to keep us in games until Cam got hot.  This year, the defense is ranked 17th.  The line?  Last year, when Cam was mobile, we were sacked 43 times.  This year, with 4 to play, 37.  So What is the difference that makes this season so different? 

 

Cam's numbers this year:

 

QB Cam Newton: 235 yards per game (21st), 13 TDs (tie-20th), 11 INTs (tie-5th most), 57.9 completion percentage (30th), 78.9 passer rating (29th), 47.7 Total QBR (24th).

 

Paint it however you want to, there is a reason Gettlemen is not throwing zeroes in a checkbook right now. 

 

 

Reggie Wayne was also on the colts and they also have pep hamilton not Shula..

 

Cotchery has no TD catches and Brown and Bersin don't demand the same respect as Ginn.. And again last year you had a healthy Cam able to bail out the offense with a 3rd down run. Which made him top 5 in 3rd down efficiency...

[WOW!!]

But again blame Cam for not making Gettelmen's garbage into the Mona Lisa...

[MHS831]

Reggie Wayne was also on the colts and they also have pep hamilton not Shula..

 

Cotchery has no TD catches and Brown and Bersin don't demand the same respect as Ginn.. And again last year you had a healthy Cam able to bail out the offense with a 3rd down run. Which made him top 5 in 3rd down efficiency...

 

Wayne was injured most of the season I referenced.

 

You blame everyone except the QB for a failing offense.  Most people blame the qb first. 

[WOW!!]

Wayne was injured most of the season I referenced.

 

You blame everyone except the QB for a failing offense.  Most people blame the qb first. 

 

 

I can Blame the QB for some of it but I realize the MARGIN OF ERROR is so thin..... I can't name any QB who has succeeded in the same situation as Cam is in right now... By the way Luck has never been in a situation like this..

[MHS831]

But again blame Cam for not making Gettelmen's garbage into the Mona Lisa...

 

You see, when you call this Gettlemen's garbage, it just shows a complete lack of understanding.

 

I should not have to educate you to argue with you.

 

Bad OC. bad coach.  Bad line.  Bad WRs.  Injuries.   Just admit you don't know how good he will be due to these things.  That is what I am saying.  I am saying that he has not demonstrated greatness.  You are telling me the reasons he has not demonstrated greatness.  What is the point? 

[WOW!!]

Also at least Luck had Wayne and TY for 7 games and I'd take Heyward bay over Cotch, Bersin and Brown put together...

 

 

 

Not to mention playing the Jags and titans for 4 easy wins...

[WOW!!]

You see, when you call this Gettlemen's garbage, it just shows a complete lack of understanding.

 

I should not have to educate you to argue with you.

 

Bad OC. bad coach.  Bad line.  Bad WRs.  Injuries.   Just admit you don't know how good he will be due to these things.  That is what I am saying.  I am saying that he has not demonstrated greatness.  You are telling me the reasons he has not demonstrated greatness.  What is the point? 

 

 

I've said a 100x already to many posters on here..

 

We don't know what Cam is because we haven't done what most teams do when they draft a young QB.. 

 

Surround him with talent and see what you have..

 

I also disagree with your not displaying greatness... One of the greatest rookie seasons ever and being the only QB carrying 77% of the offense says differently..

[MHS831]

I can Blame the QB for some of it but I realize the MARGIN OF ERROR is so thin..... I can't name any QB who has succeeded in the same situation as Cam is in right now... By the way Luck has never been in a situation like this..

 

Study the 2011 Colts and get back to me. The 2011 Colts, with Reggie Wayne, were 2-14.  In 2012 and 2013, the Colts won over 10 games and made the playoffs--they will this year.  Each year, Luck has improved, despite being without Wayne for much of 2013. Indy is heading for another 10-win season this year.  Luck is leading the league in several key QB categories. 

 

His situation was pretty bad, and he turned it into an instant winner every year he has been there.  If you want to go down memory lane, you will see similar stories out of the great ones.  All overcame adversity of some type.  Cam is not overcoming anything--he is regressing due to it.  Even when he had a stellar defense and a better OL, he didn't score much more than the defense was allowing.  He has flashed and promoted himself, but in the end, what has he actually done to help this team win games?  That is not to say that he won't, but it is to say that he hasn't--regardless of the dozens of excuses people make for him.  The bottom line is he has not been a top NFL QB.  End of discussion.

[MHS831]

I've said a 100x already to many posters on here..

 

We don't know what Cam is because we haven't done what most teams do when they draft a young QB.. 

 

Surround him with talent and see what you have..

 

I also disagree with your not displaying greatness... One of the greatest rookie seasons ever and being the only QB carrying 77% of the offense says differently..

Do they have percentage of the offense by QB on the scoreboard?  The QBs job is to use his arsenal.   What you describe as greatness, others might say is athleticism over ineptitude.  Name a successful NFL QB who is 77% of the offense.   There are none.

 

Flashy?  Yep.  Impressive?  Absolutely.  Amazing?  Sure.  Great?  We lost 10 games that year. 

[Dexterity]

Study the 2011 Colts and get back to me. The 2011 Colts, with Reggie Wayne, were 2-14. In 2012 and 2013, the Colts won over 10 games and made the playoffs--they will this year. Each year, Luck has improved, despite being without Wayne for much of 2013. Indy is heading for another 10-win season this year. Luck is leading the league in several key QB categories.

His situation was pretty bad, and he turned it into an instant winner every year he has been there. If you want to go down memory lane, you will see similar stories out of the great ones. All overcame adversity of some type. Cam is not overcoming anything--he is regressing due to it. Even when he had a stellar defense and a better OL, he didn't score much more than the defense was allowing. He has flashed and promoted himself, but in the end, what has he actually done to help this team win games? That is not to say that he won't, but it is to say that he hasn't--regardless of the dozens of excuses people make for him. The bottom line is he has not been a top NFL QB. End of discussion.

Andrew Luck pads his win column playing the Jags, Titans, & Texans twice a year- just like Manning did. And just like Manning he will continue to get wiped out in the playoffs.

Cam carried an entire shitty Auburn team on his back and wiped out the SEC and won a BCS title. He put up 4,900 Yd 35 TD as a rookie. That's what he has done when he had competent coaches. Now he's stuck with Mike freaking Shula and Ron play for the tie Rivera.

Judging Cam off what he's done with those clowns is like putting a 90-year-old woman behind the wheel of a Ferrari then critiquing the Ferrari and saying it sucks. Bring in a competent offensive mind and Cam will magically become unstoppable yet again.