Ryan Clark has a different POV on why Cam is hated.

[teeray]

33 minutes ago, pstall said:

Right.

So anytime the word thug is used its 100% racist or race driven and you can quantify that every time? 

See the wind you are chasing here? No kidding racism still exists.  Water is wet.

But the consternation over some things without being able to validate other than hunches or anecdotal is energy not best used.

Somebody calls Cam a thug. Ok. Is that on air or in a bar or i  their home or in a car? 

If publicly im pretty sure they will be challenged on it. If it's with like minded people then that's their problem.

Again. Not all non fan Cam's are racists.  I hope that doesn't burst some's bubble.

Saying there is a racial component to the over the top vitriol of the dislike of Cam Newton is different than saying they are all racists.  I dont think they are going to Klan meetings or anything, and probably 95% of them dont even consider themselves or believe themselves to be racists.

When i talk to people who dont like Cam I try to get to the root of why they hate him so much, and I find usually they have a hard time quantifying why they have that hatred for him.

There was literally a 60 year old guy on the radio who called in from South Carolina (who said he was a Panthers fan) to a national radio show yesterday and actually say "Joe Namath didn't do stuff like that".  Joe Namath.  The guy who wore giant fur coats, owned a night club, talked trash, and was the epitome of cockiness and swagger at the QB position.

Some people have a hard time exploring their own biases because to do so they would feel like they are admitting that they are bad people.  As I said in the other thread, it doesnt make you a bad person.  You are only a bad person if you ignore it and blame the ones talking openly about their experiences as the "real problem"

 

[mbarbour21]

1 hour ago, Cookie Lyon said:

I agree with you about Ryan Clark being blind on this issue, but my problem with him was that he danced around the issue and tried to sugarcoat it which was my point. 

The hate that Cam Newton receives isn't ALL based on him being black, but a majority of it is and that's where Ryan Clark dropped the ball.

I believe Clark made a very true statement in the sense that it has a lot to do with culture. However, the thing is, most people with that culture are African-Americans. If an African-American male doesn't have this culture, they are sometimes referred to as "too white". Implying that acting "white" is the OPPOSITE of this culture. It works the opposite way as well. If a white person has this culture, then they are said to be "acting black". It's like the culture is a race. So IMO, when you discriminate on that culture, you basically discriminate on that race. (That is if you have the above stated view) IMO, a lot of people do. 

[pstall]

4 minutes ago, teeray said:

Saying there is a racial component to the over the top vitriol of the dislike of Cam Newton is different than saying they are all racists.  I dont think they are going to Klan meetings or anything, and probably 95% of them dont even consider themselves or believe themselves to be racists.

When i talk to people who dont like Cam I try to get to the root of why they hate him so much, and I find usually they have a hard time quantifying why they have that hatred for him.

There was literally a 60 year old guy on the radio who valled in from South Carolina (who said he was a Panthers fan) to a national radio show yesterday and actually say "Joe Namath didn't do stuff like that".  Joe Namath.  The guy who wore giant fur coats, owned a night club, talked trash, and was the epitome of cockiness and swagger at the QB position.

Some people have a hard time exploring their own biases because to do so they would feel like they are admitting that they are bad people.  As I said in the other thread, it doesnt make you a bad person.  You are only a bad person if you ignore it and blame the ones talking openly about their experiences as the "real problem"

 

Yep. Biases run thru everyone of our veins.

Joe Namath is a great example of the complexity of cultural biases. When that same 60 year old was younger im sure columns and radio shows had people complaining about Joe at that time.

I don't sweat people talking but make sure your not chasing the wrong things.

The if game makes it more than it needs to be. If Cam had did this or Aaron Rogers said that the treatment yada yada. We don't know until that bridge is crossed.  Cycniscm doesn't always mean truth.  I know people who think the more blunt or direct they are they are more truthful and nooo. That's not always the case.

All i can control is me and help those in my circle wherever i go see the other side of the coin . If a person is fill in the blank wrong on something im going to let them know. If they want to be racist or bigoted or whatever i wipe the dust of my shoes and keep on hustling. 

[Cookie Lyon]

1 minute ago, mbarbour21 said:

I believe Clark made a very true statement in the sense that it has a lot to do with culture. However, the thing is, most people with that culture are African-Americans. If an African-American male doesn't have this culture, they are sometimes referred to as "too white". Implying that acting "white" is the OPPOSITE of this culture. It works the opposite way as well. If a white person has this culture, then they are said to be "acting black". It's like the culture is a race. So IMO, when you discriminate on that culture, you basically discriminate on that race. (That is if you have the above stated view) IMO, a lot of people do. 

My point about Ryan Clark was that he basically dropped the ball by suggesting that some of the hatred that Cam Newton receives isn't about race and that he tried to sugar coat it by using the word "culture" instead. Every race has a different culture and to me, by saying it's a cultural issue and not a race issue, he let people who do have a problem with Cam because he is black, off the hook.

I'm in NO WAY saying that all of the criticism towards Cam is based on race because that's definitely not true. Everyone isn't going to like you and that's fine, they don't have to.

 I just feel that Ryan Clark was scared to tell it like it is.

[truthjuice]

42 minutes ago, SportsCrazie4172 said:

The Godfather was made years ago..

Thug is the new code word for N word used by white americans.. I'm telling you as an AA person that if you direct this at someone black then you basically calling that person the N word..If you use this word going forward after hearing what its new meaning is used for and harp the Godfather's excuse then you just part of the problem..Be about change instead..

Whoop, there it is. 

[truthjuice]

3 minutes ago, Cookie Lyon said:

My point about Ryan Clark was that he basically dropped the ball by suggesting that some of the hatred that Cam Newton receives isn't about race and that he tried to sugar coat it by using the word "culture" instead. Every race has a different culture and to me, by saying it's a cultural issue and not a race issue, he let people who do have a problem with Cam because he is black, off the hook.

I'm in NO WAY saying that all of the criticism towards Cam is based on race because that's definitely not true. Everyone isn't going to like you and that's fine, they don't have to.

 I just feel that Ryan Clark was scared to tell it like it is.

Yes, he was. There's very few with his platform that will call a spade a spade. That's why I said he was a pawn for white media. I hate that he didn't address it full on though. 

[mbarbour21]

1 minute ago, Cookie Lyon said:

My point about Ryan Clark was that he basically dropped the ball by suggesting that some of the hatred that Cam Newton receives isn't about race and that he tried to sugar coat it by using the word "culture" instead. Every race has a different culture and to me, by saying it's a cultural issue and not a race issue, he let people who do have a problem with Cam because he is black, off the hook.

I'm in NO WAY saying that all of the criticism towards Cam is based on race because that's definitely not true. Everyone isn't going to like you and that's fine, they don't have to.

 I just feel that Ryan Clark was scared to tell it like it is.

I actually agree with you. I was just trying to explain why. Culture doesn't necessarily equal race but they are for sure linked. Sometimes people use culture as a sugarcoated way to say race. It's evident when someone says they are acting like they are black. Why do you say they are acting black? How do you act like a skin color? They are seeing race and culture as the same. I don't believe they are the same tho, but I do believe they are usually very strongly linked. 

[d-dave]

It is racial, it is cultural, it is simple dislike, and it's breaking of expectations.

Everyone expects QBs to act like Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson and all of the other bland talking QBs.  Instead he has fun, he acts his age, and he doesn't care if you don't like it.  I think it's honestly his lack of "shame at being a young black man having fun" by the culturally "white media" which made it easy.

Add to the fact that his teammates have completely embraced him, his joy, his antics, and his confidence.  Again, everyone expects one thing, Cam and the Panthers do their own thing. 

As a species, we have done a wonderful job of putting everyone in their little hole, roles, niches, genus, group, family, order, list....  When someone breaks those ideas of order, colors outside the lines so to speak, it really sets them up as a lightning rod.

With all of the other racially crazy things happening in this country, it's easy for those who are already leaning towards racist ideas and celebrities to quickly (and far too easily for a rational society) add "and he's black" to their litany of insults towards Cam.

I love Cam.  He's challenged me as a middle class white dude to really look at culture.  For years, I've always said that I don't care about where someone comes from, only how they are in the now, and that's a stupid view.  It's a tough pill to swallow that sometimes a pro-athlete will bring certain issues into focus the way the drone of the news loses it.

Cam Newton forces many of us to really look in the mirror, and most folks don't like what they see.  We are really good at lying to ourselves about who we are, how we've been, and justifying our past behaviors.

[Nomad82]

Thug is a code word for the n-bomb for SOME white people nowadays. That can't be denied.

[Nomad82]

53 minutes ago, SportsCrazie4172 said:

The Godfather was made years ago..

Thug is the new code word for N word used by white americans.. I'm telling you as an AA person that if you direct this at someone black then you basically calling that person the N word..If you use this word going forward after hearing what its new meaning is used for and harp the Godfather's excuse then you just part of the problem..Be about change instead..

You beat me to it.

[pstall]

My favorite code word is high character which we all know is code for Buddhist. 

[d-dave]

2 minutes ago, Nomad82 said:

Thug is a code word for the n-bomb for SOME white people nowadays. That can't be denied.

I can agree to that.  It's just an easy way to identify someone.  The truth of the word is lost, and instead an easy descriptor used to put someone else down.

Now when I think of thugs, I still see people who intimidate others through the threat of violence.  Man, we truly are a country full of thugs...

[Nomad82]

On 1/27/2016 at 1:22 PM, Dex said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, d-dave said:

I can agree to that.  It's just an easy way to identify someone.  The truth of the word is lost, and instead an easy descriptor used to put someone else down.

Now when I think of thugs, I still see people who intimidate others through the threat of violence.  Man, we truly are a country full of thugs...

The same can be said for the word gay. I'm old enough to remember when it had a different meaning.

[mcdougal]

2 hours ago, AceMan said:

Kaepernick gets similar hate (from some of us even) even though he has less personality and skill.

Thank you. This is why this nonsense about a "big personality" is such complete and utter BS.

McNabb was hated 

Mike Vick (prior anyone knowing he had a dog) was hated

Vince Young was hated

Colin Kaepernick is hated

RGIII is hated

Jameis Winston is hated

And there is this less prominent, but CERTAINLY still present, irrational hatred of both Wilson, Josh Freeman, Geno Smith, and Bridgewater.

 

Not all these QBs have "big personalities." They all behaved differently. Not all play the QB position the same way either. But yet if you read the comment sections of articles about any of these QBs, or visit the home message board of any of these QBs, you have no choice but to walk away with the impression that, AT BEST, that football community doesn't quite embrace him. In a lot of cases, that fan base outright hates his very guts.

The only fan base I can think of that was ambivalence towards their black QB was the Bills and EJ Manuel. Doesn't mean they wanted him to be their QB, but most Bills fans don't seem to personally hate EJ either.