Norman was not a production of a system

[Nick_81]

5 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Well, i appreciate your objectivity in yhe matter.  But, there are many here who don't share that same ability to look at the situation.  

I'm not railing against Gettleman, i'm just trying to make the point that he does make mistakes  and is not infallible.  Like I'vr said a million times, his scouting and drafting ability is uncanny.  But so far, his track record with loyal vets has been hit or miss,IMO.  I use Smitty and Norman as my talking points because both situations left their respective positions in an extremely deep hole, considering they were already pretty thin to begin with.  WR has been an issue since Smitty with KB being the one true bright spot,and Funchess showing flashes late, but it was a contributing factor in our struggles in the Superbowl.

Now, CB...  we had one big playmaker there, and now he's gone.  We'll see how it turns out, but right now, I just think it was a rash decision to let him walk.

I see what you're trying to say, but why don't people talk about the big names he has signed, compared to the ones he's let walk?

 

[trueblue]

I like Josh.. Hope he does well except when he plays us.. But I can see this being a Nnamdi Asomugha type deal

[Mr. Scot]

50 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Well, i appreciate your objectivity in yhe matter.  But, there are many here who don't share that same ability to look at the situation.  

I'm not railing against Gettleman, i'm just trying to make the point that he does make mistakes  and is not infallible.  Like I'vr said a million times, his scouting and drafting ability is uncanny.  But so far, his track record with loyal vets has been hit or miss,IMO.  I use Smitty and Norman as my talking points because both situations left their respective positions in an extremely deep hole, considering they were already pretty thin to begin with.  WR has been an issue since Smitty with KB being the one true bright spot,and Funchess showing flashes late, but it was a contributing factor in our struggles in the Superbowl.

Now, CB...  we had one big playmaker there, and now he's gone.  We'll see how it turns out, but right now, I just think it was a rash decision to let him walk.

FYI: Gooby is a dumbass kid who doesn't even watch the games, so if you're buying into his "All 22" stuff you're being fooled. The only thing he ever does here is whine about us not getting guys he's seen on Sportscenter and whine about Gettleman, but when things are going well he disappears.

No one has ever said Gettleman doesn't make mistakes. I couldn't name a single GM in the league who's mistake free, even the best of them.

What most of us find annoying though about people going off are two things:

First, the emotional overreactions people have when a player they like is let go. This happens on every single team, including several very successful ones. It's silly to think we're unique and even more silly to act like we're doomed because we let one guy go (especially after the success of the past few seasons).

Second, there's the whole stupid "I know what he's really thinking" silliness. No you don't. Nor do you know a single thing about what happened in negotiations. That kind of dumbass speculation is what makes guys like CPantherking look like morons.

I'd add that agents talk plenty while the Panthers generally stay silent or say little. And agents are not objective parties. If you really think you're ever gonna get a full unbiased story from an agent, think again.

What we do know from watching several decisions is that emotion doesn't factor into them. They're doing what they feel is best for the team. Emotion is a factor fans can afford, but teams can't...

...unless you wanna go back to the Hurney years.

[TylerDurden]

20 minutes ago, Nick_81 said:

I see what you're trying to say, but why don't people talk about the big names he has signed, compared to the ones he's let walk?

 

Well, he hasn't really signed big names.  The guys he has extended were franchise cornerstones, so thise were no-brainers.  

Free agency wise, who would you say has been the biggest signing?  I'd argue Boykin in terms of talent and name recognition coming in, he is probably the most obvious...  then maybe Ginn?  Everyone else has been budget signings on small deals, but they fit really well, yet seem fairly easy to replace.  It seems most of our signings are revolving door guys, but he finds great value.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Well, he hasn't really signed big names.  The guys he has extended were franchise cornerstones, so thise were no-brainers.  

Free agency wise, who would you say has been the biggest signing?  I'd argue Boykin in terms of talent and name recognition coming in, he is probably the most obvious...  then maybe Ginn?  Everyone else has been budget signings on small deals, but they fit really well, yet seem fairly easy to replace.  It seems most of our signings are revolving door guys, but he finds great value.

I don't measure free agents by how big their names were before they got here. I measure them by how much impact they have playing for us.

On that front, we're getting significantly more good results than bad.

[Nick_81]

6 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Well, he hasn't really signed big names.  The guys he has extended were franchise cornerstones, so thise were no-brainers.  

Free agency wise, who would you say has been the biggest signing?  I'd argue Boykin in terms of talent and name recognition coming in, he is probably the most obvious...  then maybe Ginn?  Everyone else has been budget signings on small deals, but they fit really well, yet seem fairly easy to replace.  It seems most of our signings are revolving door guys, but he finds great value.

Cam Newton, Luke Kuechly, Thomas Davis, Greg Olsen?  Those are all contracts that Gettleman negotiated.  Luke was made the highest paid MLB in the league.  Cam's contract value puts him in the top 5 in the NFL.  Olsen and Davis' contracts are extremely competitive for their positions, and age.

[TylerDurden]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

FYI: Gooby is a dumbass kid who doesn't even watch the games, so if you're buying into his "All 22" stuff you're being fooled. The only thing he ever does here is whine about us not getting guys he's seen on Sportscenter and whine about Gettleman, but when things are going well he disappears.

No one has ever said Gettleman doesn't make mistakes. I couldn't name a single GM in the league who's mistake free, even the best of them.

What most of us find annoying though about people going off are two things:

First, the emotional overreactions people have when a player they like is let go. This happens on every single team, including several very successful ones. It's silly to think we're unique and even more silly to act like we're doomed because we let one guy go (especially after the success of the past few seasons).

Second, there's the whole stupid "I know what he's really thinking" silliness. No you don't. Nor do you know a single thing about what happened in negotiations. That kind of dumbass speculation is what makes guys like CPantherking look like morons.

I'd add that agents talk plenty while the Panthers generally stay silent or say little. And agents are not objective parties. If you really think you're ever gonna get a full unbiased story from an agent, think again.

What we do know from watching several decisions is that emotion doesn't factor into them. They're doing what they feel is best for the team. Emotion is a factor fans can afford, but teams can't...

...unless you wanna go back to the Hurney years.

I'm not accepting what anyone says as the gospel, Scot.  Whether it's a poster here, an agent, a report from a beat writer, etc., and everyone would be wise not to as well.  

My opinions are based on the cumulative sum of factors that form the full picture.  This is purely anecdotal, but seriously, just for example, what other current player would've made that game sealing INT against NO early in the season in that position.  I know we can't know for certain, but I'm asking who would you trust based on talent, physical ability, etc.?

Furthermore, yes, Norman, as every player in the league does, played in a system, but he was voted an all-pro by knowledgeable football minds.  That isn't by accident.  He was doing something right.  Look at his play against the elite recievers in the league.  I know he's known as more of a zone guy, but he was left on an island plenty, and i saw it with my own eyes.

And in all the years of eatching football, and specifically our franchise there are very few corners I've watched that brought it in every aspect of the game.  Not only was Norman a ballhawk, but he would lay the wood on people and help in run support like very few other corners will - and that translates across any system.

As far as Gettleman...  idk man...  i'm starting to think a lot of the arguments over his approach are, for better or worse, based on each poster's personal life experience (i.e., management vs worker bee), and I'm not immune to falling in that trap.  But, it's the people who state they "know" woth certainty what's going on, who did what, and what was involved are the ones that irk me.  If my posts come off that way, that isn't my intention, and i'm pretty sure i usually say "i think," or try to derive conclusions based on what we know actually happened from multiple sources.  

In this case, Gettleman and Josh acknowledged Dave pulled the offer and made it fairly clear he wasnt interested in bringing him back.  Gettleman issued a statement wishing him well wherever he went...  look at that in contrast to CJ's release and the initial statements and press releases on that.  I don't know many professions that don't operate with aome degree of emotion.  I'm not saying it's the sole factor in Gettleman's decisionmaking, and i know it isn't because we wouldn't be a three-time NFCS champ and coming off a SB appearance if it was.  But, what I am saying is that he has made two very high profile decisions with high profile players that, when judging his actions in those scenarios compared to other similar situations, appear to be motivated by something other than just business.  Very, very few vocations are immune to emotional decisionmaking, and i think anyone who thinks a GM position in the NFL, regardless of the team, are any different, are kidding themselves.

[TylerDurden]

3 minutes ago, Nick_81 said:

Cam Newton, Luke Kuechly, Thomas Davis, Greg Olsen?  Those are all contracts that Gettleman negotiated.  Luke was made the highest paid MLB in the league.  Cam's contract value puts him in the top 5 in the NFL.  Olsen and Davis' contracts are extremely competitive for their positions, and age.

Yeah, those are all the cornerstone guys I was referring to.  

I think the sticking point here is whether you, and every other poster here, viewed Josh as a cornerstone guy as well.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yeah, those are all the cornerstone guys I was referring to.  

I think the sticking point here is whether you, and every other poster here, viewed Josh as a cornerstone guy as well.

At his age and for the money he wanted, no.

[TylerDurden]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

At his age and for the money he wanted, no.

Respective of position, was his age, production, etc., not comparable to Olsen at the time he recieved his most recent extension?

[TylerDurden]

Oh and to further my point about Gettleman not being immune to emotional decisionmaking...  he admitted himself he was prone to it in the pre-draft presser last week in admitting the Kugbila pick was based off emotion/personal preference.  That doesn't just stop after that pick, lol.  He is a human.  He may look back 3 years from last week and say, "yeah, i let him walk because i was insulted by the lack of engagement and progress.  My mistake."  The problem is, so many people here will not acknowledge there is a chance he screwed up and made anything other than a pure business decision, absent all human error, unless he himself admits it years from now.

[Bartin]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

Respective of position, was his age, production, etc., not comparable to Olsen at the time he recieved his most recent extension?

Not really, TEs have much longer longevity than CBs do.

[Bartin]

12 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

The problem is, so many people here will not acknowledge there is a chance he screwed up and made anything other than a pure business decision, absent all human error, unless he himself admits it years from now.

Agree with this. The narrative that Gettleman is infallible has really gone too far here, but not really unexpected. He's earned the benefit of the doubt, for sure.

[greghardy'sAK-47]

josh knows the panthers D it up.  that's why he wanted to be here.  i would think josh would have no problem admitting he owes a lot of his success to the panthers system.  

would have liked to have seen him in charlotte for one more season, but giving him 50 million guaranteed was never going to happen.  if teams are willing to give a corner that kind of cash, then let them have at it.