John Fox where have you gone?

[rayzor]

Exactly.. now richardson needs to see that and get some new blood.

seeing how he fired his own sons, i don't think that he'll have a problem moving on from fox/hurney.

[KillerKat]

Fox got used to mediocrity.

[Pimpdaddy]

He was great in the beginning because he had nothing to lose, he looked like a freakin genius on just taking common sense chances. Then he cultivated a 'rep' for winning and wanted to protect it, got conservative and started to play that situational odds bullsh!t...

[The Pieyed Piper]

I still see him in all those ways.

Eagles are a good team and so are the Falcons. Fox got beat and so did the team, he is a good coach and that's why he will bounce back.

Dude, even I'm not that stoned. But I hope he and the team bounces back.

[Peppers90 NC]

I still see him in all those ways.

Thats cuz you are Fox plus the grass.

[Urrymonster]

I am starting to think he is the perfect coach to bring back a franchises pride and dignity. He is ideal for teams starting over as he focuses on the basics and tries to win in a reliable manor. The problems start to arise when he has to then push them further, as he can't shake the core of his coaching, which is to play not to lose and to never throw away a game.

Put him in a rebuilding effort and hes amazing. He is great with players, great at instilling belief in them and they will rarely hit outside the 7 win column. Then once he has to do it over and over the players get a feel that they have seen everything he has and it quickly resolves in them wanting to try new things as they focus too much on the simple things here.

Many have mentioned it before. Complacency. A lot of these players have been in this system for a LONG time. People mentioned there was not a much of a buzz to training camp this year, especially compared to last year. The difference? He was rebuilding. We went back to our roots and completely reworked the offense. This year? He attempts to build on what we had. It seems that unless the team needs retooling in some area, complacency appears to set in.

The year we went to the Superbowl, he famously quoted that "last year we fixed the defense, this year was the offense" or something to that idea. As it was his first couple of seasons he was always building, so we made quick improvements on both sides simultaneously. Which incidently led to our best season. Now though he only fixes something and rebuilds it once it becomes beyond broken. So we only ever get a building of a part of the team once every two years, which strangely concides with his record. Remember, teams should always be building on what they have. Fox seems to be great at the initial stage, but can't grasp that he needs to always work on it.

Makes me think why we get so many 'busts' come here and pick up their game. In my mind it goes back to his coaching style. He gives those neglected players a chance and belief and they return that with commitment and they begin to see some of their potential emerge. Much like the team as a whole, individuals very rarely hit their peak with him. We have not had one player turn into a bonafide superstar, many have showed flashes, but never hit that potentil ceiling. Peppers is the classic example.

It even makes sense with his draft philosophy. He picks the safe picks. The OL, the LB, the RB. The bust rate for those positions is pretty minimal. He does not like picking the positions that define franchises like QBs, or the positions that generate incredible flexibility for defenses such as safeties. At the end of the day you see so many dismal franchises taking risks on the skill positions. Year after year they make the same mistakes. Unfortunately it seems Fox can't take the risk on those skill positions and ultimately you need those positions to win in the modern game, at least consistently.

Fox is great at laying the foundations but terrible at building on them.

[Peppers90 NC]

Fox got used to mediocrity.

He is an NC State fan too huh?

I am starting to think he is the perfect coach to bring back a franchises pride and dignity. He is ideal for teams starting over as he focuses on the basics and tries to win in a reliable manor. The problems start to arise when he has to then push them further, as he can't shake the core of his coaching, which is to play not to lose and to never throw away a game.

Put him in a rebuilding effort and hes amazing. He is great with players, great at instilling belief in them and they will rarely hit outside the 7 win column. Then once he has to do it over and over the players get a feel that they have seen everything he has and it quickly resolves in them wanting to try new things as they focus too much on the simple things here.

Aw man, you read those articles and got some sentiment back also didn't ya? I can relate.

[Urrymonster]

He is an NC State fan too huh?

Aw man, you read those articles and got some sentiment back also didn't ya? I can relate.

Also watched THE season highlights on youtube and get tingles all over. It did make me think though, where has it gotten off track. He is still fundamentally a players coach, and most really get on with him. So I started thinking about all his philosophies and that grew into my previous post, which kept getting longer and longer the more I pieced together.

[Udogg]

I like run first defensive teams. I like our team having an identity. I think with with some tweaks on the Defensive line we could be a really competitive defense. Problem is our defense hasn't been the same since Jenkins got hurt. To get front four pressure, you need a beast at defensive tackle and we are missing that. I love our offensive line (the Atlanta game version and not the Philly game one). I love our running backs. I think our secondary is actually good, just not put in positions to make plays. Our linebacking core is good to go. Special teams isn't focused on until we have problems, just like last year. Having 3 kickers is a no no, I think next year either Lloyd starts kicking field goals or he has to go. I like the personnel on our team. Just not all the schemes we run on offense/defense. But I'm not a coach, so I am probably wrong.

[mountainpantherfan]

Urrymonster, you could not have made a better post. I think too many people on here forget what a great coach Fox was and is. I don't think for one second that Fox is in some way inferior to other coaches in or out of the league, he isn't. But just like Marty Schottinhymer (sp?) there seems to be that ceiling that once reached can not be penetrated. Given the right situation, a Fox lead team can when a Super Bowl just like Cowher eventually did in Pittsburgh. But the question now is will the fanbase and more importantly the owner have the paitience to see that through with Fox as coach.

I really find it funny how people are wanting Cowher over Fox when IMO they are the same coach.

[Pantherpike]

Unfortunately, Fox's biggest flaw is that he doesn't seem to understand that the game of NFL football is ever evolving. What worked 10 years ago has been disected by coordinators since then and if you don't *always* try and stay ahead of the curve you will be left behind it. Do you really think Belicheck just sticks with a formula and pushes whatever players he has healthy on the roster into it? My bet is that he is objective in what he has, and how best to use WHAT HE HAS. He adjusts and is constantly trying to stay ahead of the curve. Fox is the reactionay coach who thinks other coordinators don't have a job to figure out his strategy. Fox is the stale coach who thinks it's OK for opposing coordinators to know exactly what you plan to do. He thinks that somehow won't affect their decisions and that being predictable isn't a bad thing.

That's why I think Fox's time as a HC in the NFL is almost over. He will probably get picked up by some shitty team next year, but his inability to adjust and not remain predictable will eventually be his downfall. And that sucks, because I like him as a person and wish him well. Hell, we have enough talent on this team to make a turnaround (which is also why his coaching style is so damn bitter to me right now...argh!) but until he realizes that other coaches get paid too, he won't be an effective game manager anymore. We are wasting a pretty talented offense and some incredible defensive players. Oh well...

[Urrymonster]

That's why I think Fox's time as a HC in the NFL is almost over. He will probably get picked up by some shitty team next year, but his inability to adjust and not remain predictable will eventually be his downfall. And that sucks, because I like him as a person and wish him well. Hell, we have enough talent on this team to make a turnaround (which is also why his coaching style is so damn bitter to me right now...argh!) but until he realizes that other coaches get paid too, he won't be an effective game manager anymore. We are wasting a pretty talented offense and some incredible defensive players. Oh well...

Could not disagree more.

Fox will get a HC job in next to no time. His record is simply incredible and really puts him amongst the NFLs top coaches. If he went to somewhere that needed a HC who could get a franchise back on track, then he would do fantastically there as well.

Unfortunately, if he does leave here, I see him getting a contender spot and that is not where his skill set is best suited.

Does he evolve his way of thinking? No not really, but the simple fact is, his line of thinking is still very relevant. It won him 12 games last year and has never done him worse than 7 wins. The reason it is still relevant, is because he preaches fundamentals. Winning the LoS, discipline and is fantastic at motivating players. Perfect for a team lacking in confidence.

The Panthers, other than the superbowl year, have never had 'that' special something. It is in my opinion, because Fox is fantastic at fundamentals and fantastic are building a core, but does not have the flexibility or know how to make a team unique.

Hate to say it but power running will be slowly becoming more prevelant, because teams are stacking up on smaller more athletic defenders to cope with the high powered passing offenses. Play action will also never die out because of this. In addition his method of using the defense will always keep him within a chance of winning most games as they refuse to give up big plays. Again this will not die out and will always give the offense a chance of winning.

Is he the right coach for us? No. Not now. We need someone who has that gutsy ability to take this team and create its own identity. Someone who can bring in a bit of flair and risk taking. would have loved to have Rex Ryan...

We have the core. Fox made sure of that. One more year and I am convinced Fox will shore up the DL as well, but we will still be stuck in the same situation as we have been for several years. Great on fundamentals, but lacking in genuine creativity and the ability to take a gamble.

[George Shinnsplints]

I am starting to think he is the perfect coach to bring back a franchises pride and dignity. He is ideal for teams starting over as he focuses on the basics and tries to win in a reliable manor. The problems start to arise when he has to then push them further, as he can't shake the core of his coaching, which is to play not to lose and to never throw away a game.

Put him in a rebuilding effort and hes amazing. He is great with players, great at instilling belief in them and they will rarely hit outside the 7 win column. Then once he has to do it over and over the players get a feel that they have seen everything he has and it quickly resolves in them wanting to try new things as they focus too much on the simple things here.

Many have mentioned it before. Complacency. A lot of these players have been in this system for a LONG time. People mentioned there was not a much of a buzz to training camp this year, especially compared to last year. The difference? He was rebuilding. We went back to our roots and completely reworked the offense. This year? He attempts to build on what we had. It seems that unless the team needs retooling in some area, complacency appears to set in.

The year we went to the Superbowl, he famously quoted that "last year we fixed the defense, this year was the offense" or something to that idea. As it was his first couple of seasons he was always building, so we made quick improvements on both sides simultaneously. Which incidently led to our best season. Now though he only fixes something and rebuilds it once it becomes beyond broken. So we only ever get a building of a part of the team once every two years, which strangely concides with his record. Remember, teams should always be building on what they have. Fox seems to be great at the initial stage, but can't grasp that he needs to always work on it.

Makes me think why we get so many 'busts' come here and pick up their game. In my mind it goes back to his coaching style. He gives those neglected players a chance and belief and they return that with commitment and they begin to see some of their potential emerge. Much like the team as a whole, individuals very rarely hit their peak with him. We have not had one player turn into a bonafide superstar, many have showed flashes, but never hit that potentil ceiling. Peppers is the classic example.

It even makes sense with his draft philosophy. He picks the safe picks. The OL, the LB, the RB. The bust rate for those positions is pretty minimal. He does not like picking the positions that define franchises like QBs, or the positions that generate incredible flexibility for defenses such as safeties. At the end of the day you see so many dismal franchises taking risks on the skill positions. Year after year they make the same mistakes. Unfortunately it seems Fox can't take the risk on those skill positions and ultimately you need those positions to win in the modern game, at least consistently.

Fox is great at laying the foundations but terrible at building on them.

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

[mountainpantherfan]

Unfortunately, Fox's biggest flaw is that he doesn't seem to understand that the game of NFL football is ever evolving. What worked 10 years ago has been disected by coordinators since then and if you don't *always* try and stay ahead of the curve you will be left behind it. Do you really think Belicheck just sticks with a formula and pushes whatever players he has healthy on the roster into it? My bet is that he is objective in what he has, and how best to use WHAT HE HAS. He adjusts and is constantly trying to stay ahead of the curve. Fox is the reactionay coach who thinks other coordinators don't have a job to figure out his strategy. Fox is the stale coach who thinks it's OK for opposing coordinators to know exactly what you plan to do. He thinks that somehow won't affect their decisions and that being predictable isn't a bad thing.

That's why I think Fox's time as a HC in the NFL is almost over. He will probably get picked up by some pooty team next year, but his inability to adjust and not remain predictable will eventually be his downfall. And that sucks, because I like him as a person and wish him well. Hell, we have enough talent on this team to make a turnaround (which is also why his coaching style is so damn bitter to me right now...argh!) but until he realizes that other coaches get paid too, he won't be an effective game manager anymore. We are wasting a pretty talented offense and some incredible defensive players. Oh well...

I will give you that Belichick is an amazing talent at the coaching position. But do you know how many coaches in the NFL are like him? None. Others have tried to recreate what he does and they have all failed.

Fox isn't the exception to the rule. When you look at NFL coaches they are all mostly the exact same style. Fisher, Fox, Cowher, Coughlin, Dungy, Parceils, Johnson, Tomlin. And unlike how you characterise it, these coaches do not just simply fail to evolve. They all spend 20 hours a day working on their craft.

Fox isn't the perfect coach by no means but to look at him and say he is outdated is niave.