JR vs Gettleman vs Ron

[Craig Pruitt]

6 hours ago, CRA said:

and you also have a GM starting an odd trend of spending first round picks on guys who arent intended to be starters.  That will start to take its toll on a team that "builds" through the draft.

I couldn't help but think of Shaq Thompson when I read this.  Because of the experienced veteran ahead of him (T. Davis) Shaq is rarely on the field for 3rd down. I remember reading something prior to him being drafted in 2015. Some scouts felt he was better suited to play SS. Here's a link to the article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473401/article/nfl-teams-say-shaq-thompson-should-play-strong-safety-as-pro

I know it's unlikely to happen. But, as bad as the SS play has been this season, I can't help but wonder if we'd be a little better with Shaq at SS, Coleman at FS, and use AJ Klein at the other OLB spot when we're in our base 4-3 defense.

We've got 3 high level picks who either don't start or miss a lot of downs that need to contribute the rest of the season and into the future if we're going to have some success (Shaq, Devin, and Vernon)

[Benotheking]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Forget it. He just doesn't seem to get that Rivera's first couple of seasons were  a wash because of rebuilding. He also doesn't understand the gradual progression of Cam who was about as green as they come when drafted in a pro style offense. And neither does he understand the paramount importance of a rock solid LT.  I guess that after the team had been gutted of veteran leadership with noobs and and aging Band-Aids that Rivera and company were supposed to come out on fire.

And, so what if Rivera had two COTY awards under Gettleman? It's not like Gettleman was coaching the team. G-man is responsible for providing Rivera with NFL-level talent.

I'd like to know what coaches are doing more with second and third stringers---and people who shouldn't even be on an NFL roster---than Rivera, since he keeps on beating that drum.

Cam newton had 35 TD in 2011 but still only won 6 games. Other young QB like luck and Wilson account for under 30 and still wins 10+ games. We always had talent did we not ?  Rock solid LT ? Seahawks is winning with their bad UDFA LT.  "I guess that after the team had been gutted of veteran leadership with noobs and and aging Band-Aids that Rivera and company were supposed to come out on fire". No matter the talent the G.M the O.C Rivera has not start fast in the first half of the season and it's becoming a trend.  So Cam Luke T.D and Olsen plus others is not enough veteran leadership coming off a 15 and 1 Superbowl year?Do we not have talent? We have 95 percent of our Superbowl roster and many top 5 and 10 player at their position so why are we 1 and 5? 'I'd like to know what coaches are doing more with second and third stringers---and people who shouldn't even be on an NFL roster---than Rivera, since he keeps on beating that drum.' New England went 3 and 1 without their starting  QB LT RT TE RB among others. Dallas is 5 and 1 with a rookie QB and RB and a crap defense.The Eagles are 4-1 with a rookie QB and sub par players at multiple position.Seahwaks is winning with their hurt QB in Russel Wilson UDFA across their O-line and consider by everyone to be the worst O-line in the NFL.Denver is 4 and 2 with a 7th round QB and a sub par running backs.did nothing to replace 2 key player on their defense.Every team has weaknesses why are they winning and we are not ?

[Benotheking]

53 minutes ago, The_Rainmaker said:

A blind GM would have drafted Star at our pick.  Seattle has decent OL  but also has a  top 5 defense each year with the best secondary that is perfect for the pass happy NFL.  New England has differnt offensive system with 2 of the best TE , best coach , Good OTs   shiftty WRs that can get open real quick etc etc oh yeah one of the best QB. Obviously you dont know poo about football

 

KANSAS CITY -- Heading into Saturday's preseason opener against the Chiefs, Tom Cable was asked what he wanted to see out of his offensive line, with the Seattle assistant head coach stating he simply needed to see his players play football, because due to the physical nature of the position, judging the group's play during less-than-full-speed training camp practices can only show you so much.

Well, following the Seahawks' 17-16 win at Kansas City, one that came in thrilling fashion on the final play of the game, head coach Pete Carroll shared an encouraging assessment of the team's offensive line that features several new faces in new places.

“I was really pleased," Carroll said. "I thought the first group did a great job of driving the ball. Everything was really on it."

 

Against Kansas City, Seattle's first-string offensive line looked as it did in practice this past week. With J'Marcus Webb, who has been starting at right tackle in training camp, battling a knee injury, the Seahawks used Bradley Sowell at left tackle, Mark Glowinski at left guard, Justin Britt at center, rookie first-round pick Germain Ifedi at right guard, and Garry Gilliam at right tackle. The group ran just one series with starting quarterback Russell Wilson, but remained in the game into the second quarter. 

“I thought the offensive line did great," said Wilson. "I was only in there for one series, but for that one series I had plenty of time, guys were solid up there up front. The communication, guys being engaged."

Before an end-zone interception ended the Seahawks' opening drive, Wilson had time to connect with open receivers, finding Doug Baldwin twice and Tyler Lockett once. Running back Christine Michael, meanwhile, finished the day with seven carries for 44 yards, 27 of which came on four totes during Seattle's initial possession, as he ran through tackles, and open holes. 

“I told those guys, those guys did an outstanding job tonight, man," Michael said of Seattle's O-line. "Those guys were giving their running backs five yards before we even get touched. That’s always good. I hang my hats off to those guys. Without those guys, of course it’s hard to even throw the ball, run the ball, anything. So those guys did a good job.”

Added Ifedi: “I thought we did good. We communicated well. We picked up a lot of things they threw at us. We can always get better. This is the first preseason game, but I thought for the first game, for this group only being together a week or so now, I thought we were really good.”

The grouping of Sowell, Glowinski, Britt, Ifedi, and Gilliam saw anywhere between 23-25 plays together, according to Carroll's estimate, which is what the Seahawks had hoped to see. Britt is perhaps in the newest spot of the bunch, having started at right tackle his rookie season, left guard last season, and now making the move to center, with Saturday's game marking his first real action at the position. 

“This is my third year in the NFL and I’ve kind of gone up and down mentally and I finally feel like I’ve done a really good job in learning how I prepare and being in a calm setting mentally," said Britt. "I was talking with Russell, and I’ve felt like I’ve been [at center] for years, and he said the same thing. But I feel like that’s the way I prepared and having a great coaching staff and everybody in the building, and trusting the guys next to me to do their job.”

 

 

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In terms of the offensive line's communication with the quarterback, Wilson said it all starts with Britt, who in working with Wilson has been "in tune with what we're trying to do" while making "some great calls" that allowed the offense to move the ball "extremely well."

"He’s so dedicated to the craft," Wilson said of Britt. "He’s constantly studying, constantly asking questions. When we were out there I didn’t even realize it was his first game at center just because I’ve seen him so much, so many times, and he’s been in so many big games and so many big moments.

"There’s no fear in him. He loves the challenge. We love that he loves the challenge. He’s going to be great at it."

As Wilson said postgame, there is still plenty of room for improvement across the board on the offensive side of the football. But through roughly two weeks of training camp and now one exhibition game, the Seahawks quarterback feels confident in saying the offense is further ahead at this point of preseason play than it has been in any of his previous four NFL seasons.

“I think we’re right where we need to be," Wilson said. "I don’t think we can get too much better in the sense of guys being connected to one another. The calls, the plays, we’re playing with great tempo. There’s always room for improvement, obviously, as you go throughout the season and we’re just starting. We haven’t been this good in terms of collective offense I don’t think ever since we’ve been here, for four years, five years or whatever. So it’s a great start and we want to start where we finished last year. We want to accelerate. We want to continue to be able to do all the things that we can do.”

Coach Carroll admitted he would need to watch the film of Saturday's game before making a thorough assessment of the offensive line, but added "I thought we looked very solid and that’s a really good first outing for our guys. It looked like it’s looked in practice."

"I can’t wait to see this film," he said. "The sooner we can get to it the better just so we can see what all these guys look like and we’ll know more.” Read

 

Seahawks has the worst O-line in the NFl and still winning if we had their O-line this place would go crazy Jeremy might have to shut down the huddle. Do we have talent? YES. Are we one of most talented teams in the NFL? YES.Entering this year we were one of the most talented team with top player at many position so why are we 1 and 5 with the talent we have ?

[LinvilleGorge]

44 minutes ago, CRA said:

Biggest issue is Gettlemen is letting the number of holes grow each year.  Gets harder to plug them. Maybe next year Gettlemen will draft a backup QB in the first round so he can use that as leverage when Cam's contract comes up again in several years.

This. OT and DE have been weaknesses for quite some time now. He at least attempted to address DE taking Ealy in the 2nd, but time is running out on Ealy taking that next step. We all hoped and honestly thought that his Super Bowl performance was his coming out party, but it looks more like a fluke. Our OTs have been JAGs ever since Cam was drafted.  That's completely inexcusable. Oher and Remmers performed admirably well last year until Remmers was publicly executed in the Super Bowl. But, it looks like they've either regressed to their mean this year or the Broncos simply gave everyone the blueprint to beating them.

[CRA]

34 minutes ago, Craig Pruitt said:

 

We've got 3 high level picks who either don't start or miss a lot of downs that need to contribute the rest of the season and into the future if we're going to have some success (Shaq, Devin, and Vernon)

well they aren't going to get that playing time unless you do something about the studs they backup....hence the issue of drafting guys with the intention of them not being starters.

[Benotheking]

56 minutes ago, The_Rainmaker said:

Oh yeah & fuging Russell Wilson who is probably the most elusive QB in the NFL 

And Cam is not ?

[Castavar]

13 minutes ago, Benotheking said:

And Cam is not ?

No where near as quick or elusive as Wilson.

[Benotheking]

1 hour ago, The_Rainmaker said:

If you actually followed football you would know that just about every coach in the leauge that starts with a new team usually have couple of slow years before the team takes off no matter what talent they have.

All I know is each year under Ron we took a step forward 

2011: 6-10

2012: 7-9

2013: 13-3 playoff birth

2014: 7-8-1 playoff win

2015: 15-1 SB birth

2016: SB win?

How many winning seasons does Ron have ? 2. No matter how you slice it he has only 2 winning seasons out of 5 about to be 6 and you can make a strong case that coaching is the biggest factor to that with talent we had on this roster.

Jim Harbaugh

Bruce Arians

Chuck Pagano

Chip kelly

All had winning seasons their first year so it has been done before Doug Pederson is 4-1 with a rookie QB and Dan Quinn start his rookie coaching season going 5 and 0..What are the excuses for Ron for always getting off to a slow start ?

[Benotheking]

4 minutes ago, Castavar said:

No where near as quick or elusive as Wilson.

Agreed not as quick but No where near as elusive? Can't be serious cam has so many highlights of him escaping rushers and breaking defenders ankles in  the pocket.

[Castavar]

Just now, Benotheking said:

Agreed not as quick but No where near as elusive? Can't be serious cam has so many highlights of him escaping rushers and breaking defenders ankles in  the pocket.

He also has just as many (if not more) highlights of him spinning into defenders or getting caught outisde. Cam is more comparable to Big Ben in terms of elusiveness in the pocket.

[Benotheking]

Just now, Castavar said:

He also has just as many (if not more) highlights of him spinning into defenders or getting caught outisde. Cam is more comparable to Big Ben in terms of elusiveness in the pocket.

So Cam Newton is not one of the most elusive QB in the NFL ? How many QB are more elusive then him ?

[Craig Pruitt]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

well they aren't going to get that playing time unless you do something about the studs they backup....hence the issue of drafting guys with the intention of them not being starters.

That's one of the problems with the "drafting the best player available" philosophy in the early rounds. You "may" be getting guys who won't play right away while they're on the rookie contracts. By the time they hit the field full time they're only a year or two away from FA. Secondly, if they never beat out the guy ahead of them you've pretty much wasted a pick. I can see doing that in rounds 4-6, or even 3-6, but those 1st and 2nd round picks need to contribute almost immediately to justify drafting them so high.

I like all of the players we drafted, but I can't help but believe the team would be stronger if the picks used on LB and WR in rounds 1 and 2 of the 2015 draft had been used to find a CB, or a  S,  or a OT, or a DE. And, we actually lost a pick in 2015  because we traded up to get Devin (G-Man had a 1st round grade on him).  We definitely could've gone DE last year instead of DT. Starr is tied up thru 2017 with the 5th year option and we can use the TAG on K. Short if we have too. DT wasn't a problem last year...DE was.

That said, it is understandable why Shaq and Vernon aren't on the field for a lot of snap because of the starters ahead of them. But, shouldn't an 2nd rounder (Funchess)  be able to beat out Ted Ginn and Philly Brown (UDFA)?

[Benotheking]

3 minutes ago, Castavar said:

He also has just as many (if not more) highlights of him spinning into defenders or getting caught outisde. Cam is more comparable to Big Ben in terms of elusiveness in the pocket.

Also the same can be said about Russell doing that dumb spin and taking a 15 yard sack loss.Cam is not more elusive then Russel but he is close to him.The gap is not that far apart. 

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Benotheking said:

Cam newton had 35 TD in 2011 but still only won 6 games. Other young QB like luck and Wilson account for under 30 and still wins 10+ games. We always had talent did we not ?  Rock solid LT ? Seahawks is winning with their bad UDFA LT.  "I guess that after the team had been gutted of veteran leadership with noobs and and aging Band-Aids that Rivera and company were supposed to come out on fire". No matter the talent the G.M the O.C Rivera has not start fast in the first half of the season and it's becoming a trend.  So Cam Luke T.D and Olsen plus others is not enough veteran leadership coming off a 15 and 1 Superbowl year?Do we not have talent? We have 95 percent of our Superbowl roster and many top 5 and 10 player at their position so why are we 1 and 5? 'I'd like to know what coaches are doing more with second and third stringers---and people who shouldn't even be on an NFL roster---than Rivera, since he keeps on beating that drum.' New England went 3 and 1 without their starting  QB LT RT TE RB among others. Dallas is 5 and 1 with a rookie QB and RB and a crap defense.The Eagles are 4-1 with a rookie QB and sub par players at multiple position.Seahwaks is winning with their hurt QB in Russel Wilson UDFA across their O-line and consider by everyone to be the worst O-line in the NFL.Denver is 4 and 2 with a 7th round QB and a sub par running backs.did nothing to replace 2 key player on their defense.Every team has weaknesses why are they winning and we are not ?

The main reason we are1-5 is because Gettleman decided to gamble on a bunch of rookies and sub par players in the defensive backfield. Our defensive backfield is our major weakness. You keep harping on rookie QBs and Wilson, but the fact is every team that you named has a defense ranked I. The top half of the league, and most are top 10. You can't trot out all noobs and inexperienced question marks and expect good things to come of it. That's crazy, especially in retrospect. That's the big difference, and it's a huge difference between their situations and ours, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Moreover, one thing that you can't get past that Rivera is a two-time COTY who was voted COTY because his teams overachieved with less. That's just a fact.