We have the least productive number 2 WR in the league?

[top dawg]

17 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

I really want to know whose keeping track of the snap count cause if you watch the film it's clear as day Funchess gets more snaps than Philly. Unless Philly is playing special teams

Come on, man, thst was pretty weak. Anyone who has been watching knows that neither Brown nor particularly Funchess is getting WR2 snaps. It doesn't have anything to do with ST. Brown has out-snapped Funchess, just as Ginn has.

I actually agree that we need another legit playmaker at WR with good hands, and I will never buy into the Olsen argument because I think that's weak also, but the argument can't really hinge upon the fact that specific receivers aren't getting enough production unto themselves. There must be some context for the argument to have more validity (like drops,YAC, or lack of big plays 20 yards or more, etc.).

 

 

[76west]

23 hours ago, The_Rainmaker said:

Philly needs more touches I would move him ahead of Ginn and play him in the slot.

True

 

[76west]

23 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Our receiver Corps is less productive than it was last year.

Why is that???

 

[76west]

21 hours ago, top dawg said:

Ginn has 334 snaps. Philly, 320. Funchess has 287. So, first consider that Funchess isn't even the WR2 like you think thst he is. Consider that Muhammed Sanu has 437 snaps, and Michael Thomas has 466, and you will see the numbers of what a true WR2 looks like.

Now perhaps our receivers just aren't up to par. Maybe. Then again, Perhaps we just haven't made the commitment to one guy being the WR2 because of philosophy. I don't know. I would like more consistency with the receivers on several fronts, but until we get some new blood and/or a new philosophy, I wouldn't bet on the level of production of one guy skyrocketing anytime soon. It's not who we are.

How can yo judge their production if they are not getting targeted.. funchess and brown during the last two games 1 or 2 two targets and that is not becuase they are not getting open.

 

[GoobyPls]

16 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

Last season we didn't have KB. That's a bad argument 

 

15 hours ago, top dawg said:

Come on, man, thst was pretty weak. Anyone who has been watching knows that neither Brown nor particularly Funchess is getting WR2 snaps. It doesn't have anything to do with ST. Brown has out-snapped Funchess, just as Ginn has.

I actually agree that we need another legit playmaker at WR with good hands, and I will never buy into the Olsen argument because I think that's weak also, but the argument can't really hinge upon the fact that specific receivers aren't getting enough production unto themselves. There must be some context for the argument to have more validity (like drops,YAC, or lack of big plays 20 yards or more, etc.).

 

 

We have used tight ends since Cam's rookie season. Olsen has had two consecutive 1000 yard seasons. Funchess is on pace for less than 300 yards, Ginn is on pace for less than 500 yards. That would be the lowest for a number 2 WR since Jimmy Clausen was our QB.

 

BTW I just saw this two past weeks tape and yep Funchess had more snaps than Brown. Especially on passing downs

[top dawg]

5 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

 

We have used tight ends since Cam's rookie season. Olsen has had two consecutive 1000 yard seasons. Funchess is on pace for less than 300 yards, Ginn is on pace for less than 500 yards. That would be the lowest for a number 2 WR since Jimmy Clausen was our QB.

 

BTW I just saw this two past weeks tape and yep Funchess had more snaps than Brown. Especially on passing downs

I told you that Brown has out-snapped Funchess according to a couple of reputable web sites including Pro Football Reference. I don't know what else to tell you. Two weeks out of nine, even if it's true, is like "meh," but if it makes you feel it strengthens your point...All of these mental gymnastics in order not to face facts. We don't really have a dedicated 2, and even our 1 in terms of skill set as it pertains to speed, route running, YAC, and possibly even hands is in question. But, at the end of the day, our passing offense produces by committee which was very effective and potent until weaknesses showed up in the Super Bowl last February.

With that said, another route-running playmaker with great hands and at least decent speed would likely make us unstoppable provided everyone stays healthy.  Just think if defenses had to legitimately decide to leave KB one on one. Another legit playmaker would open it up for KB and everyone.

[GoobyPls]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I told you that Brown has out-snapped Funchess according to a couple of reputable web sites including Pro Football Reference. I don't know what else to tell you. Two weeks out of nine, even if it's true, is like "meh," but if it makes you feel it strengthens your point...All of these mental gymnastics in order not to face facts. We don't really have a dedicated 2, and even our 1 in terms of skill set as it pertains to speed, route running, YAC, and possibly even hands is in question. But, at the end of the day, our passing offense produces by committee which was very effective and potent until weaknesses showed up in the Super Bowl last February.

With that said, another route-running playmaker with great hands and at least decent speed would likely make us unstoppable provided everyone stays healthy.  Just think if defenses had to legitimately decide to leave KB one on one. Another legit playmaker would open it up for KB and everyone.

What facts am I facing? That we have one of the weakest least productive WR cores in the NFL? That this team has needed wide receivers since Cam was drafted, we have passed on numerous free agents for no apparent reason.

 

You can add up Ginn, Funchess and Brown's stats it still won't add up to Crabtree whose a number 2.

[top dawg]

29 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

What facts am I facing? That we have one of the weakest least productive WR cores in the NFL? That this team has needed wide receivers since Cam was drafted, we have passed on numerous free agents for no apparent reason.

 

You can add up Ginn, Funchess and Brown's stats it still won't add up to Crabtree whose a number 2.

Oh, so pick one of the top five offenses in the league why don't you?

Different offenses. Different dynamics!  

And actually it does surpass his total.

[top dawg]

@GoobyPls, our main problem stems from having the 29th ranked passing defense. That's where the main issue lies. 

[GoobyPls]

14 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Oh, so pick one of the top five offenses in the league why don't you?

Different offenses. Different dynamics!  

And actually it does surpass his total.

One of the reasons we don't have one of the top passing offenses is cause of our receivers. You think Carr would produce at the same rate with Ginn instead of Crabtree? Hell no

 

Go take your secondary complaint to the twelve other threads bitching about the secondary 

This thread about our abysmal WR core who people keep making excuses for. 

[AU-panther]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 11:43 AM, GoobyPls said:

Looking through every roster and I'm trying to find someone with less production than Ginn or Funchess. Maybe the Browns since Coleman is injured.

 

We should of signed Mike Wallace 

Mike Wallace is the number one receiver on his team.  Crabtree is the number #2 receiver on his team.  Ginn is our number #3.

This isn't fantasy football where you can assemble a team of players whose stats are independent of each other because they play on different teams. 

Do you honestly think Wallace or Crabtree would have the same stats if they played on the Panthers?  Would they have more then Ginn?  Maybe, but chances are KB and Olsen would have a little less.  Would the over all numbers be higher?  Maybe, but not to the degree people on here think.

There are only so many passing attempts to go around.  How many teams have 3 1000 yards receivers?  1-2 at the most, maybe none. 

Top 3 in receiving yardage for Raiders : 843, 596, 277 on 354 attempts

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/oak

Top 3 in receiving yardage for Panthers: 673, 543, 284 on 291 attempts

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/car

Not only do our receivers have to share targets with Olsen our offensive system doesn't throw as much as most teams. Those two facts alone greatly decrease the chance of a 2nd receiver putting up the stats that some people around here expect.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/sort/passingAttempts

According to the link we are 21st in the lease in attempts.

You could make the argument that with better receivers we might throw more but with our coaching staff I have my doubts. I just don't think it is their offensive philosophy.  In my opinion you could add Antonio Brown and Julio Jones to this team and our overall passing numbers wouldn't change as much as most people think.

[GoobyPls]

34 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Mike Wallace is the number one receiver on his team.  Crabtree is the number #2 receiver on his team.  Ginn is our number #3.

This isn't fantasy football where you can assemble a team of players whose stats are independent of each other because they play on different teams. 

Do you honestly think Wallace or Crabtree would have the same stats if they played on the Panthers?  Would they have more then Ginn?  Maybe, but chances are KB and Olsen would have a little less.  Would the over all numbers be higher?  Maybe, but not to the degree people on here think.

There are only so many passing attempts to go around.  How many teams have 3 1000 yards receivers?  1-2 at the most, maybe none. 

Top 3 in receiving yardage for Raiders : 843, 596, 277 on 354 attempts

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/oak

Top 3 in receiving yardage for Panthers: 673, 543, 284 on 291 attempts

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/car

Not only do our receivers have to share targets with Olsen our offensive system doesn't throw as much as most teams. Those two facts alone greatly decrease the chance of a 2nd receiver putting up the stats that some people around here expect.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/sort/passingAttempts

According to the link we are 21st in the lease in attempts.

You could make the argument that with better receivers we might throw more but with our coaching staff I have my doubts. I just don't think it is their offensive philosophy.  In my opinion you could add Antonio Brown and Julio Jones to this team and our overall passing numbers wouldn't change as much as most people think.

The title specifically says WIDE RECIEVER, stop bringing Olsen into this. I already debunked this argument in my last comment. We have had productive play from our TE's since Cam's rookie season with Olsen and Shockey. Even then the production from our 2 WR wasn't this bad. Not even with old man Cotchery in 2014 when he got relegated towards the end of the season, was this unproductive.

 

Do you want me to remind the talent gap between Crabtree and Ginn? They both played in SF Crabtree was the number 1, Ginn was 5th in the depth chart, couldn't even beat out an old Randy Moss or an often  Injured Manningham, he barely beat out Kyle Williams for fug sakes. If you think guys like Crabtree or Wallace wouldn't be major upgrades you are out of your mind and the need to check your fanboyism. Ginn was a free agent and the only other team that wanted him was the Browns at a hometown discount. 

 

You keep deflecting blame to the system when you know damn well if we had more productive receivers the system would look a whole lot different.

[CPcavedweller]

On 11/8/2016 at 11:53 AM, mc52beast said:

This team is missing Armanti Edwards, he was our Mr Dependable... our Mr Clutch

He actually did well for himself in Canada in only a few games this season. 3 TD's I believe with a game tying running TD and what amounted to a game winning TD catch. 

[top dawg]

6 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

One of the reasons we don't have one of the top passing offenses is cause of our receivers...

This thread about our abysmal WR core who people keep making excuses for. 

You're correct, we don't have a "top" passing offense, and our WRs do play a part in this, but they aren't "abysmal" and don't really need excuses, just rationale as to why an apples to apples comparison is not totally on point. Our passing offense currently ranks 15th, and our total rank is 11th. It was top 10 (if not top 5) before we encountered the top defense in the league (Cards), and a top 10 defense in the Rams. Not asking for much (from historically rational-minded Huddlers), just a little context.