Panthers salary cap

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

He did a good job of giving a PK 9M guaranteed? An injured and aging TE 12M guaranteed. Poe 11M. What contracts did he do a “good” job on? 

First of all the contract to Olsen was a savings over what Gettleman signed him for in 2018 which was going to cost right at 9,750,000 in cap hit. So he cut his cap by almost 2 million and accelerated his signing bonus on the new contract meaning over half that 12 mill is already accounted for, to limit  the dead cap space if he didn't work out. Next year his cap is 7 million or the same in dead cap if we cut him. Overall a pretty good contract considering his previous production.

Let's look at Gano. He just came off a probowl year and was great keeping opposing kickoff teams from running it back. 85% touchbacks which topped the league. That 9 million is spread out over 4 years.  New kicking rules were put in after he was signed. Even then his cap hit was 3.4 million for 2018. Truth is until he got hurt he was having a good year. Anyone who thinks paying 2% of the cap on a player, who accounts for roughly 1/3 of your points in any given year, is too much doesn't have a clue.

[Sasquatch]

4 hours ago, stbugs said:

Also, release Kalil. $7m in savings in 2019 for a backup/trash and a lot more in cash savings is more than enough to not worry about dead cap. His being on the roster is basically more dead cap. Same with Poe, especially if we draft a DT. $16m in cap savings over dead cap in 2019 and 2020. We’ll worth the dead cap rather than continuing to waste even more cap. 

The cap hit to release M. Kalil is 2.5 million more than keeping him. Even Post June 1 costs a quarter million more. Poe would save about 2.6 million, so we would break even by cutting both but need to sign replacements with no cap gain.

EDIT: I looked at the wrong number. We do recover a little by cutting Kalil post June 1. 2-3 million for 2019 and about 1 million in 2020.

 

[panthers55]

19 minutes ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

Last year was nothing close to the severity of what is upcoming and what happened in 2010-2011. I'm talking about Marty's talent for resigning players to ridiculously back-loaded contracts and restructuring their contracts to back-load as well. It was an absolute nightmare. 

Those contracts in 2010 and 2011 were more on Richardson that Hurney. He dumped our vets before 2010 expecting a long holdout. It didn't happen and we went 2-14 and were the laughing stock of the league. Marty overpaid what he did to keep some core players to keep fans from leaving in droves and so Richardson could prove he wasn't cheap. Since he came back he has learned from his mistakes. He front loaded Olsen for example and still saved 2 million in cap in 2018. 

[MillionDollarCam]

Honestly, if you are in need of a nickel this FA class is the one for you.

Steven Nelson, Phillip Gaines, Darqueze Dennard, Justin Coleman, and Bryce Callahan (stud) are all better options than Captain.

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

First of all the contract to Olsen was a savings over what Gettleman signed him for in 2018 which was going to cost right at 9,750,000 in cap hit. So he cut his cap by almost 2 million and accelerated his signing bonus on the new contract meaning over half that 12 mill is already accounted for, to limit  the dead cap space if he didn't work out. Next year his cap is 7 million or the same in dead cap if we cut him. Overall a pretty good contract considering his previous production.

Let's look at Gano. He just came off a probowl year and was great keeping opposing kickoff teams from running it back. 85% touchbacks which topped the league. That 9 million is spread out over 4 years.  New kicking rules were put in after he was signed. Even then his cap hit was 3.4 million for 2018. Truth is until he got hurt he was having a good year. Anyone who thinks paying 2% of the cap on a player, who accounts for roughly 1/3 of your points in any given year, is too much doesn't have a clue.

  We didn’t have to pay him 9.7M   We had 3M in dead money involved. You cut him and sign him to a one year deal. Why do you think DG didn’t want to extend him? He was in the last year of a 4 year contract. Not an injured 33 year old that could hit the booth at any time. It’s ridiculous to give him that much guaranteed. Even if he plays this year, it still costs 3.7M to cut him in 2020. Handing him 12M guaranteed was asinine. 

  And with all that about Gano, it was widely predicted this would be a disappointment of a signing. First off, why are you paying an inconsistent, at best, PK 3M+/year. Had similar player to everything you just listed for 1/6th price. And without the history of sucking any time it mattered. 

  Those were both quite a reach but they are still terrible contracts. 

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Those contracts in 2010 and 2011 were more on Richardson that Hurney. He dumped our vets before 2010 expecting a long holdout. It didn't happen and we went 2-14 and were the laughing stock of the league. Marty overpaid what he did to keep some core players to keep fans from leaving in droves and so Richardson could prove he wasn't cheap. Since he came back he has learned from his mistakes. He front loaded Olsen for example and still saved 2 million in cap in 2018. 

  Does this also mean JR signed Matt Kalil? I get confused on JRs involvement and the convenience it comes with. 

  

  

[MillionDollarCam]

30 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

The cap hit to release M. Kalil is 2.5 million more than keeping him. Even Post June 1 costs a quarter million more. Poe would save about 2.6 million, so we would break even by cutting both but need to sign replacements with no cap gain.

The Matt Kalil info is incorrect.

Kalil’s cap hit for 2019 is $12.15M with a dead cap of $14.7M.

A post June 1st cut takes that $14.7M and divides it up over the next two seasons.

His adjusted 2019 cap hit would now be $4.9M instead of the original $12.15M, a savings of $7.25M (cap space that can only be used for draft pricks and in season signings).

His adjusted 2020 cap hit would be $9.8M, the same number it would be if he was released outright in 2020.

Matt Kalil is essentially eating up $7M that could be used on draft picks and in season signings this year. Additionally, with the 2020 post June 1st cap number being the same $9.8M as the 2020 dead cap number, the same $6.1M is saved.

Is Matt Kalil worth $7.25? That’s the question to ask and the easy answer is no.

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  Does this also mean JR signed Matt Kalil? I get confused on JRs involvement and the convenience it comes with. 

  

  

If you had been here then you would know better. If you were here then  and don't remember Richardson's role in that your memory appears shot. 

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

If you had been here then you would know better. If you were here then  and don't remember Richardson's role in that your memory appears shot. 

I didn’t say he didn’t. It’s just comical that he only gets blamed for Hurney mistakes. 

  But we sign the brother of one of those same players, to a ridiculous contract under the same “family-friendly” owner, and it’s not relevant? And the GM is gone two months later. And it’s because he doesn’t want to give Olsen an extension. 

  I don’t blame JR because no one knows his actual involvement in anything. So both GMs get credit/blame for everything.  

[Pantha-kun]

I dont understand why shaq is slated for 9 mil against the cap that is insane relative to his performance. 

The only 2 players we should be paying a lot to are cam and luke.  No one else on this roster is worth a big contract besides cmc whos still on his rookie deal for at least 2 more seasons. 

[panthers55]

26 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  We didn’t have to pay him 9.7M   We had 3M in dead money involved. You cut him and sign him to a one year deal. Why do you think DG didn’t want to extend him? He was in the last year of a 4 year contract. Not an injured 33 year old that could hit the booth at any time. It’s ridiculous to give him that much guaranteed. Even if he plays this year, it still costs 3.7M to cut him in 2020. Handing him 12M guaranteed was asinine. 

  And with all that about Gano, it was widely predicted this would be a disappointment of a signing. First off, why are you paying an inconsistent, at best, PK 3M+/year. Had similar player to everything you just listed for 1/6th price. And without the history of sucking any time it mattered. 

  Those were both quite a reach but they are still terrible contracts. 

So if you are talking Olsen let's remember before his foot injury last year he had 3 1000 yard seasons. And based on the info from the doctors he was going to be healthy and fine. If you are arguing we shouldn't have signed him at all, who did we have at tight end to replace him and who were all these awesome wide receivers that suddenly.made him expendable? And if you had cut him he would be elsewhere not here on a 1 year deal much like Gross when he retired. Handing him less than the franchise amount for a tight end with great history of production and health was a good deal that only looks bad in retrospect because he got injured again. 33 is not that old for a TE. Lots of guys play well into their 30s.

And TD continues to outplay his contract.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

I didn’t say he didn’t. It’s just comical that he only gets blamed for Hurney mistakes. 

  But we sign the brother of one of those same players, to a ridiculous contract under the same “family-friendly” owner, and it’s not relevant? And the GM is gone two months later. And it’s because he doesn’t want to give Olsen an extension. 

  I don’t blame JR because no one knows his actual involvement in anything. So both GMs get credit/blame for everything.  

Richardson got blamed for the debacle of 2010 and 2011 which was accurate and justifiable. When else have people blamed Richardson for Hurney's screw ups 

[Toomers]

Just now, panthers55 said:

So if you are talking Olsen let's remember before his foot injury last year he had 3 1000 yard seasons. And based on the info from the doctors he was going to be healthy and fine. If you are arguing we shouldn't have signed him at all, who did we have at tight end to replace him and who were all these awesome wide receivers that suddenly.made him expendable? And if you had cut him he would be elsewhere not here on a 1 year deal much like Gross when he retired. Handing him less than the franchise amount for a tight end with great history of production and health was a good deal that only bars in retrospect because he got injured again. 33 three is not that old for a TE. Lots of guys play well into their 30s.

And that whole post is why we are where we are. Paying for past production. Because of what he means to the franchise. Not on expectations of future performance. I can see why you defend Hurney. You share the same mindset. 

  Even when healthy, Greg has been a “threat” to retire at any time. Why you would hand him guaranteed money instead of just yearly deals is amateurish. 

And now we are going to overpay for him whether he plays or not. 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Richardson got blamed for the debacle of 2010 and 2011 which was accurate and justifiable. When else have people blamed Richardson for Hurney's screw ups 

Seriously? And you accuse me of memory loss? And why doesn’t that apply to DG? Ever. That’s my issue. It’s either both or neither. Can’t have it both ways.