Fired Bills assistants with Panther Connections

[RenoCarolina]

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Taylor and Matsko are two assistant coaches I want to stay. Taylor seemed to do a good job with our young WRs and Matsko has been trying to make chicken salad out of chicken poo for years. He resurrected Oher's career, developed a UDFA into the highest paid OG in NFL history, developed a 4th rounder into an All-Pro RT, got half a season of solid play at LT out of Chris Clark, had second year Moton playing like one of the better OTs on the league. Matsko has done a great job with what he's had to work with.

 

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Castillo and Robiskie never coached for the Panthers.

I've always thought Matsko was overrated.  This year's OL didn't do anything to change that opinion.

Interesting to have two top posters with polar opposite takes regarding Matsko.

LinvilleGorge did post some #facts, would be curious why @Mr. Scot things Matsko is overrated?  

 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, RenoCarolina said:

Interesting to have two top posters with polar opposite takes regarding Matsko.

LinvilleGorge did post some #facts, would be curious why @Mr. Scot things Matsko is overrated? 

Pretty much always have.  I think most of the guys who performed well on our line were already established. As far as who we can say Matsko has developed, it's a short list, and for each guy that you can credit him for (Norwell, for example) there's a flipside (Silatolu).

But even accepting that Matsko has done okay, Castillo has a rep for being one of the best in the league.  He and Russ Grimm were always among the guys fighting for that title before Grimm retired.

I've wished Castillo were on staff for years. I also wished for Norv Turner, and that turned out pretty good too.

[RenoCarolina]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Pretty much always have.  I think most of the guys who performed well on our line were already established. As far as who we can say Matsko has developed, it's a short list, and for each guy that you can credit him for (Norwell, for example) there's a flipside (Silatolu).

But even accepting that Matsko has done okay, Castillo has a rep for being one of the best in the league.  He and Russ Grimm were always among the guys fighting for that title before Grimm retired.

I've wished Castillo were on staff for years. I also wished for Norv Turner, and that turned out pretty good too.

thank you for Norv?

but reading between the lines the only clear reason for labelling Matsko "over-rated" are due to his failure to develop Silatolu?

And from the research put forth by LinvilleGorge Matsko has done much better than "ok".  Just seems replacing our OL coach is an odd focus in terms of improving the team this offseason.

[LinvilleGorge]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

I've always thought Matsko was overrated.  This year's OL didn't do anything to change that opinion.

Based on what? I'm not sure anyone in the NFL has had less talent to work with year in and year out than Matsko. We should have a bottom five OL year in and year out but by most metrics we're usually middle of the pack. Thats good performance for the talent we're fielding.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, RenoCarolina said:

thank you for Norv?

but reading between the lines the only clear reason for labelling Matsko "over-rated" are due to his failure to develop Silatolu?

And from the research put forth by LinvilleGorge Matsko has done much better than "ok".  Just seems replacing our OL coach is an odd focus in terms of improving the team this offseason.

I wished for Russ Grimm, Mike Zimmer and Frank Reich too.  Clearly I'm not Alladin.

There's more guys than just Silatolu.  He's only one example.

To be clear, it's not that I necessarily think Matsko is awful. More that he's not as good as Castillo.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Based on what? I'm not sure anyone in the NFL has had less talent to work with year in and year out than Matsko. We should have a bottom five OL year in and year out but by most metrics we're usually middle of the pack. Thats good performance for the talent we're fielding.

See above.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

See above.

Amini being a bust? We drafted Turner, Moton, and Williams. We signed Norwell as a UDFA. Remmers was a JAG FA, so was Oher. Ryan Kalil was pretty much the only established quality OL Matsko has ever had an opportunity to work with.

You just seem to be wanting change just for the sake of change at this point.

[RenoCarolina]

Is the best OL coach the guy that gets the best from the least?  Or the guy that pushes and leads a group with 3 or four top round picks and FA's?

I'm willing to listen to any way this team can improve but as long as we are searching the reeds for talent I am totally on board with Matsko

 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Amini being a bust? We drafted Turner, Moton, and Williams. We signed Norwell as a UDFA. Remmers was a JAG FA, so was Oher. Ryan Kalil was pretty much the only established quality OL Matsko has ever had an opportunity to work with.

You just seem to be wanting change just for the sake of change at this point.

Turner looked like he was going to be good, but now he's an underachiever.

Van Roten had his moments, but most of them were early in the season. He got worse as the year went on.

I don't agree with Oher being a JAG, but if you recall he credited Matsko with making him what he was.

Like I said, I believe Castillo is better. On this, we disagree.

[Prowler2k18]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I wished for Russ Grimm, Mike Zimmer and Frank Reich too.  Clearly I'm not Alladin.

There's more guys than just Silatolu.  He's only one example.

To be clear, it's not that I necessarily think Matsko is awful. More that he's not as good as Castillo.

Agreed. We need to change the habit of hiring/retaining just based on familiarity.  Its the reason we held onto to Mike Shula so long and what did that do for us?

[Prowler2k18]

7 minutes ago, RenoCarolina said:

Is the best OL coach the guy that gets the best from the least?  Or the guy that pushes and leads a group with 3 or four top round picks and FA's?

I'm willing to listen to any way this team can improve but as long as we are searching the reeds for talent I am totally on board with Matsko

 

I get you on this but I'm not sure Matsko has always fit this description. Our OL has struggled more often than not the past few years (with 2015 being an exception). You can't blame it all on talent when there are other teams getting more with less. Not saying Matsko is a bad coach, far from it, but I think we could do better whether that's Castillo or someone else. 

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Turner looked like he was going to be good, but now he's an underachiever.

Van Roten had his moments, but most of them were early in the season. He got worse as the year went on.

I don't agree with Oher being a JAG, but if you recall he credited Matsko with making him what he was.

Like I said, I believe Castillo is better. On this, we disagree.

If Matsko ever did anything to hurt us it was his revival of Oher's career giving Gettleman hope that he could do the same for Matt Kalil, but ultimately it's all on Gettleman for backing up the Brinks truck for that scrub.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

If Matsko ever did anything to hurt us it was his revival of Oher's career giving Gettleman hope that he could do the same for Matt Kalil, but ultimately it's all on Gettleman for backing up the Brinks truck for that scrub.

Assuming it was his call (which we'll never know; nor does it really matter).

As mentioned, I believe we can do better.

A lot goes back to Igo's suggestion that assistants could be shuffled though.  Haven't seen that happen yet.

If it does, I'd sacrifice hiring Castillo and keep Matsko if it also meant we brought Steve Wilks back and jettisoned Richard Rodgers. That's easily the weakest spot on the coaching staff right now.

[RumHam]

Matsko is overrated AF. Yeah, he helped Oher kinda get his poo together. He did nothing to help Matt Kalil and has plenty of failures to back that up (Amini and Bell come to mind). Also, the Bills are poo, why would we want anyone from that staff?