I don't think we can bench Kyle Allen...

[Mr. Scot]

If people act like Kyle Allen losing one game is somehow proof that he was never really good, it'll be silly.

If people act like Cam Newton losing one game when he returns is absolute proof that he'll never be good again, that will also be silly.

[ncfan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's exactly the kind of take Greg Olsen is calling out as false.

What else would he say.  He's going to stick up for his teammates 

But facts are facts

We've played weak teams

The RB has carried that team

We've got off to leads and Allen has yet to have to lead a come from behind

Our defense has done a good job putting less pressure on the offense 

[Chosen Newton]

People who believe Allen>Newton are mindless people who live in the moment. Allen is a low tier starting quarterback, whose basically being a game manager and Cam is a superstar when he is firing on all cylinders. Allen exploits terrible defenses in cardinals and Bucs but struggled against Texans low tiered defense. 
Enough with the Cam Newton is going to be replaced by Kyle Allen

[Wolfpack352]

Here is the list off all the QBs in the NFL since the 1970 AFL/NFL merger to win his first 5 starts without throwing a single interception:

Kyle Allen

end of list

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, ncfan said:

What else would he say.  He's going to stick up for his teammates 

But facts are facts

We've played weak teams

The RB has carried that team

We've got off to leads and Allen has yet to have to lead a come from behind

Our defense has done a good job putting less pressure on the offense 

Yeah, those are actually opinions.

And not having to come from behind isn't a bad thing. It means you're winning. 

[ncfan]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, those are actually opinions.

And not having to come from behind isn't a bad thing. It means you're winning. 

Not how strength of schedule, CMC load in carrying this team, and the defense is a opinion?

Stats are stats.  You have a bad record, bad statistically,  and just not a good team.  Its not a opinion 

Its not a opinion that the dolphins are one of the worst teams in the league.

 

CMC.setting records for touches etc isnt a opinion.  They are riding him, Fact

The defense being atop statistically putting up record sack #s, isnt a opinion haha.  They are facts haha.

Dont get how people cant wrap thwir head around.  People are so wrapped around Allen is in and we are winning so he MUST be the answer why we are winning.  Guessing we should cut trai turner and extend Williams because we've looked great running the ball and 4-0 since that swap as well. Smh

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 hours ago, Chosen Newton said:

People who believe Allen>Newton are mindless people who live in the moment. Allen is a low tier starting quarterback, whose basically being a game manager and Cam is a superstar when he is firing on all cylinders. Allen exploits terrible defenses in cardinals and Bucs but struggled against Texans low tiered defense. 
Enough with the Cam Newton is going to be replaced by Kyle Allen

The question about Cam vs Kyle isnt is Kyle a better QB than Cam. Its is Kyle better than Cam is right now.

Cam has had 2 shoulder surgeries, a lisfranc injury, and other injuries that didnt get listed. It's also come to the forefront that the slow to the line play and clock management may actually be Cam, not RR and Shula/Norv.

Simple fact is none of us know where Cam is right now. KA is doing enough for his part on offense. When/if Cam is ready to play like a healthy Cam will be the time to determine whether or not to bench KA based on performance, not before.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, ncfan said:

Not how strength of schedule, CMC load in carrying this team, and the defense is a opinion?

Stats are stats.  You have a bad record, bad statistically,  and just not a good team.  Its not a opinion 

Its not a opinion that the dolphins are one of the worst teams in the league.

CMC.setting records for touches etc isnt a opinion.  They are riding him, Fact

The defense being atop statistically putting up record sack #s, isnt a opinion haha.  They are facts haha.

Dont get how people cant wrap thwir head around.  People are so wrapped around Allen is in and we are winning so he MUST be the answer why we are winning.  Guessing we should cut trai turner and extend Williams because we've looked great running the ball and 4-0 since that swap as well. Smh

Again, one of the reasons those other teams have bad records is because we beat them.

It's a fact to say that Christian McCaffrey is putting up an X number of yards.

Saying that's good, elite, dominant or whatever other adjective you want to put in is actually an opinion.

Going further to say that the main or only reason Kyle Allen is doing as well as he's doing is because of Christian McCaffrey is an extrapolation, and a theory. 

(and given that McCaffrey was pretty well controlled yesterday, it's a weak one)

The real "fact" here is that we are winning, and Kyle Allen actually did play in those games. Going to Herculean efforts to try and explain away his contribution to it is kinda silly, and pretty obviously agenda driven.

Bottom Line: As long as we're winning, I don't give a sh-t whether it's with Kyle Allen, Cam Newton, Will Grier or Nate the Play 60 kid starting at quarterback.

I cheer for a team, not it's individual players.

[micnificent28]

14 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't really see Schwartz as a "media" type though.

Freeman wrote a full length article on it. I'm debating whether to put that here or post it separately.

That's a few that speculate this kind of stuff but the real scout guys that know football disagree. Allen is is solid.. he doesn't reach the same heights as a healthy Newton. "We dont know if he will ever be healthy again" well, that's why you have to find out.. that said you have to give him his shot.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

That's a few that speculate this kind of stuff but the real scout guys that know football disagree. Allen is is solid.. he doesn't reach the same heights as a healthy Newton. "We dont know if he will ever be healthy again" well, that's why you have to find out.. that said you have to give him his shot.

Willie McGinest, Deion Sanders and our old friend Steve Smith have all said you can't bench Allen.

Per Mike Freeman, other personnel types have said the same thing.

There are definitely no unanimous opinions on this topic.

[micnificent28]

3 hours ago, Wolfpack352 said:

What is really going to stink up this forum is and IF Kyle loses ONE game, like LOL the cam fanbase is going to erupt with told you so and etc...  But blind to the fact how many games has Cam lost?  But even I won't blame all on Cam because it was and is a team effort, there is always some nit picky stuff that happens that could have or did change the course of the game, whether it was Cam or defense going soft as well as anything else.

How many games has kyle allen actually won! I mean the team is driving itself basically lol. We are getting 7 sacks a game with 2 pick per almost.. all Allen has to do is show up and collect I told you so's  from fans who only see the score board.  Who did he actually beat is my question.. the games he won himself.. I will give him the 4 touchdown game vs the cardinals maybe.. but the rest??

He kinda just let cmc do his thing and not rock the boat which is good. It's what a backup does.. he is NOT the future of this team. Dont be fooled by shallow numbers..

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

How many games has kyle allen actually won! I mean the team is driving itself basically lol. We are getting 7 sacks a game with 2 pick per almost.. all Allen has to do is show up and collect I told you so's  from fans who only see the score board.  Who did he actually beat is my question.. the games he won himself.. I will give him the 4 touchdown game vs the cardinals maybe.. but the rest??

He kinda just let cmc do his thing and not rock the boat which is good. It's what a backup does.. he is NOT the future of this team. Dont be fooled by shallow numbers..

According to Greg Olsen, all of them.

I'm curious, though: If we were to go back and look at all of Cam Newton's games and find which ones included significantly good play by the defense, great plays by receivers or running backs or other crazy lucky factors etc. do we then subtract all of those from Newton's win total?

We want to be fair and consistent, right?

[WoahW]

Healthy Newton plays and he either is Newton of old and we have a shot at the SB or he won’t ever be the same and it gets to the point we see Allen is the better option.

 

Above is what needs to happen 1000%

[micnificent28]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

According to Greg Olsen, all of them.

I'm curious, though: If we were to go back and look at all of Cam Newton's games and find which ones included significantly good play by the defense, great plays by receivers or running backs or other crazy lucky factors etc. do we then subtract all of those from Newton's win total?

We want to be fair and consistent, right?

What’s truly winning games for Allen right now is also the same element that was losing them for Cam and Carolina in the second half of 2018. The defense had one of the worst pass rushes in the league last year (No. 27 in sacks), whereas this year it’s one of the best (No. 8). The secondary has also made a dramatic turnaround. Instead of giving up massive plays every week, the DBs are locking down even star wide receivers and creating turnovers. The Panthers have already posted nine interceptions this season, whereas they had 13 all of last year.

you had newton get destroyed the first drive of the first preseason game behind an experimental right tackle at left.. since allen has been under center you have moved him back to the right side with two backup left tackles who have all proven to be better at left than right.. last we saw healthy newton beginning of 2018 he was doing better than 15..