Albert Breer: Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio could be hired after his contract runs out

[thefuzz]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Here' a guy we might could use in some role. He's been gaining a solid rep as a personnel guy.

 

Don't know much about him, but have heard good things.  

[Growl]

8 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Nick was a pro personnel guy, not a college guy for them.  The Pats have always been ahead of the curve on pro free agents, and when to move on from their own guys, something that this franchise has historically struggled with.

 

I know, but we are still talking about one of the core components of the job.

[thefuzz]

25 minutes ago, Growl said:

I know, but we are still talking about one of the core components of the job.

I think far too many people here think that the GM is the "head scout", when I don't believe that to be true....for the most part.

The GM's top job is to put together the very best team, top to bottom, that's number 1, and the Pats have been doing that for a long time.  The draft is only a piece of that puzzle.

[Mr. Scot]

Not that big a fan of Eliot Wolf but worth noting...

[panthers55]

5 hours ago, thefuzz said:

I asked for some facts, hell I started an entire thread, back when we weren't a dumpster fire yet, asking posters to explain their "Hurney 2.0" fascination and no one could.

I can have an adult conversation if you can?

At the end of the day his positives are far less than his negatives so far, please explain how you think he has done a better job.

I disagree. His track record negotiating reasonable contracts, drafting as well as most teams and finding guys to fill in when our team has been devastated with injuries the past 2 years has been pretty good. But let's remember his job. To find the players the coaches want, to draft who the scouts say we need to get, and to negotiate contracts that weren't cap killers like the heavily incentive deal he gave to Olsen to make him happy which cost us peanuts when Olsen got hurt and didn't earn the incentives. While he ultimately get the blame or praise for the wins and losses, any reasonable fan knows he only controls so much. Sure you can nitpick his failures but all GMs miss on picks and bring in guys who underperform so at least consider how he compares to others not on a scale of perfection and address the points I brought up.

[Mr. Scot]

Elliot Wolf's dad, legendary Packers GM Ron Wolf...

I'm not the world's biggest analytics fan, but to be fair, having Hue Jackson as head coach was a big part of that record.

[thefuzz]

17 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I disagree. His track record negotiating reasonable contracts, drafting as well as most teams and finding guys to fill in when our team has been devastated with injuries the past 2 years has been pretty good. But let's remember his job. To find the players the coaches want, to draft who the scouts say we need to get, and to negotiate contracts that weren't cap killers like the heavily incentive deal he gave to Olsen to make him happy which cost us peanuts when Olsen got hurt and didn't earn the incentives. While he ultimately get the blame or praise for the wins and losses, any reasonable fan knows he only controls so much. Sure you can nitpick his failures but all GMs miss on picks and bring in guys who underperform so at least consider how he compares to others not on a scale of perfection and address the points I brought up.

Another poster that you don't like going back and forth with mentioned a little game where you post a good thing Marty has done since his return, and he would respond with bad move....I would love to play this game if you are willing.  I'm not going to talk negatively about draft picks over the last two years, unless they aren't on the team any longer, however I can accept the .  Actual good moves vs. bad moves.

You game?

Also, I know you are smart enough to gather your thoughts on this, but you are refusing to back up your claim that he has been good since his return to the team.  What we are doing is asking for some proof of the good deeds.

I'll start for you.  DJ Moore.

 

[panthers55]

5 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Another poster that you don't like going back and forth with mentioned a little game where you post a good thing Marty has done since his return, and he would respond with bad move....I would love to play this game if you are willing.  I'm not going to talk negatively about draft picks over the last two years, unless they aren't on the team any longer, however I can accept the .  Actual good moves vs. bad moves.

You game?

Also, I know you are smart enough to gather your thoughts on this, but you are refusing to back up your claim that he has been good since his return to the team.  What we are doing is asking for some proof of the good deeds.

I'll start for you.  DJ Moore.

 

And I told that poster that this isn't a contest where if you say 5 bad things and I say 6 good things then someone wins or loses. Most of my conversations during the day are interactions to help people change their attitudes, behavior or beliefs to become more successful. Will anything I say change your belief about Hurney? If not then why would I waste my breath or time. Honestly my ego isn't tied to this site so someone thinking I am afraid to debate because I have no case isn't a concern for me. So before we even begin, why would I waste my time going back and forth with someone who has made up their mind and just wants to argue about something they have no control over and whose opinion doesn't matter.

[thefuzz]

9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And I told that poster that this isn't a contest where if you say 5 bad things and I say 6 good things then someone wins or loses. Most of my conversations during the day are interactions to help people change their attitudes, behavior or beliefs to become more successful. Will anything I say change your belief about Hurney? If not then why would I waste my breath or time. Honestly my ego isn't tied to this site so someone thinking I am afraid to debate because I have no case isn't a concern for me. So before we even begin, why would I waste my time going back and forth with someone who has made up their mind and just wants to argue about something they have no control over and whose opinion doesn't matter.

Of course you can change my mind, I'm not that stubborn.

It's why I ask the questions.

My question to you was what exactly do you think that he has done that has been good since he has been back?  It's a pretty easy one to be honest.  Do his good moves outweigh his bad.  From where I'm sitting no, but I would love to have the discussion.

[panthers55]

11 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Of course you can change my mind, I'm not that stubborn.

It's why I ask the questions.

My question to you was what exactly do you think that he has done that has been good since he has been back?  It's a pretty easy one to be honest.  Do his good moves outweigh his bad.  From where I'm sitting no, but I would love to have the discussion.

He has hit on both his first rounders in what appears to be a big way, even though we agree that 3 years is a small window and likely too soon to judge. Given these were outside the top 10 that is huge. Hitting on a first rounder is more important than most of the other picks combined  given only the first 3 rounds statistically give you likely starters and first rounders by their cost typically stay around whether they are good or not. Butler is a perfect example.

That alone is a huge reason to keep him. 

 

[thefuzz]

44 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

He has hit on both his first rounders in what appears to be a big way, even though we agree that 3 years is a small window and likely too soon to judge. Given these were outside the top 10 that is huge. Hitting on a first rounder is more important than most of the other picks combined  given only the first 3 rounds statistically give you likely starters and first rounders by their cost typically stay around whether they are good or not. Butler is a perfect example.

That alone is a huge reason to keep him. 

 

OK, I can agree to disagree somewhat.  I'm not 100% sold on Burns yet, but so far he looks like he could round into a good player.  Bit of a tweener, but he could be something, Moore on the other hand looks like he could be very good.

Is that it?

[panthers55]

42 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

OK, I can agree to disagree somewhat.  I'm not 100% sold on Burns yet, but so far he looks like he could round into a good player.  Bit of a tweener, but he could be something, Moore on the other hand looks like he could be very good.

Is that it?

I thought it was I do one, you do one. Although hitting on first rounders should be weighted much higher than missing on Gaulden for example or someone else.  As busy as I am, I can do better with smaller bits of time rather than writing a thesis.

[thefuzz]

16 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I thought it was I do one, you do one. Although hitting on first rounders should be weighted much higher than missing on Gaulden for example or someone else.  As busy as I am, I can do better with smaller bits of time rather than writing a thesis.

10-4.  I'll start from the beginning then.

Extending Greg Olsen, coming off injury, with a year left on his contract.

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

10-4.  I'll start from the beginning then.

Extending Greg Olsen, coming off injury, with a year left on his contract.

That wasnt a bad move at the time. It was only a 2 year extension and the incentive money added to the 2017 contract was never earned.  So it a 2 year 17 million deal for a player who hadn't been hurt before, was talking about broadcasting and wanted some security to stay. There was no reason to think it was a going to be a problem. We only paid 2019 on the new contract and the dead money when  he split this year was only 3.4 million which didn't hurt the cap. Nope you can call it bad because he got injured again in 2018 but it wasn't a bad contract and didn't handicap us like a Matt Kalil contract and at least Olsen was a 3 time 1000 yard receiver in 2014-16. Hurney actually put in incentives that mitigated much damage.