Panthers showing interest in a QB

[45catfan]

13 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I have watched some.  Here are my thoughts.

Positives:  Throws all the passes, he reads well, good arm strength, cool in the pocket, good vision, good size, and not a bad athlete in general. He seems to have leadership skills from what I could see.

Negatives:  Tends to under throw deep balls, leans backwards a bit too much when throwing which could impact his vision and maybe slow his delivery), he takes chances, but his TD to int rate is good, he is RAW.

I am not the best person to analyze a QB in the manner I just did, so take it with a grain of salt.  However, there is something there.  Can we develop it?  If Cam stays, yes.

A Thought:  Herbert refused to say when asked if Carolina spoke to him at the combine, but he talked about meeting with the Patriots in a separate interview.  The Cam situation is delicate; are we keeping that end quiet?    If so, this could be simply plan B---draft a guy with a good skill set and develop him for a year behind Cam.  Plan A could be to draft a QB now and trade Cam. 

The next 2 weeks are going to tell us a lot about the QB plans.

There's only a few clips of him throwing a deep ball with a clean(ish) pocket.  Those were on the money. Most of those slightly under thrown balls were a) 40+ yards away and b) usually with a defender about to crush him as the protection is collapsing.

Agreed, he'll need to be an understudy for a year or two.  The tools are there, though.  I am not sure if we are honestly interested in Herbert as putting on a front that we are.  If you send out signals that you are going to pass up a guy, why would teams that want to trade up?  Act like you DO want him and make those later teams propose a nice package.

As far as Cam goes, I am certain the team has laid out a few different scenarios and keeping ALL options open right now until he passes a physical.  At that point, they can choose which path they want to pursue.

[Growl]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

You do realize that most of the NFL starting QB's were not top 10 draft picks, right?

lol most of the NFL's starting QBs aren't very good. That's the point. The ones that are good however..

" The first round has produced 953 more starts than the other six rounds combined. Even the winning percentage dips after the second round, but of course we see a huge upswing in the sixth round thanks to Tom Brady and the Patriots. In fact, Brady has as many playoff starts (34) as the other 214 quarterbacks drafted in rounds two to seven have playoff wins (34) since 1994. We'll get to the sixth round later, but it should be noted that 43.8 percent of the quarterbacks drafted in rounds six or seven failed to play in a game."

:https//www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/nfl-draft-round-round-qb-study-1994-2016

 This insane rationalizing that it's a good investment to blow picks looking for legitimate QBs outside where the numbers have dictated over and over they can almost exclusively be found is not something you'd see on almost any other fan forum I'd wager.

It's a weird byproduct of this forum specifically, probably because panther fans value the draft too much because it's the only means of roster improvement theyve ever known.

[Growl]

42 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

 

The hype for QBs is unreal.  

wow now this is peak offseason

[45catfan]

7 minutes ago, Growl said:

lol most of the NFL's starting QBs aren't very good. That's the point. The ones that are good however..

" The first round has produced 953 more starts than the other six rounds combined. Even the winning percentage dips after the second round, but of course we see a huge upswing in the sixth round thanks to Tom Brady and the Patriots. In fact, Brady has as many playoff starts (34) as the other 214 quarterbacks drafted in rounds two to seven have playoff wins (34) since 1994. We'll get to the sixth round later, but it should be noted that 43.8 percent of the quarterbacks drafted in rounds six or seven failed to play in a game."

:https//www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/nfl-draft-round-round-qb-study-1994-2016

 This insane rationalizing that it's a good investment to blow picks looking for legitimate QBs outside where the numbers have dictated over and over they can almost exclusively be found is not something you'd see on almost any other fan forum I'd wager.

It's a weird byproduct of this forum specifically, probably because panther fans value the draft too much because it's the only means of roster improvement theyve ever known.

So 1st round QB bust---> worth it, 6th/7th bust at very other position on the field--->worth it.  But, 6th/7th round QB bust---> dumbest decision ever.

[Growl]

15 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

So 1st round QB bust---> worth it, 6th/7th bust at very other position on the field--->worth it.  But, 6th/7th round QB bust---> dumbest decision ever.

lol is this seriously the hill you wanna wage this war on

why don't we just not draft players at all so we don't have to fear the dreaded BUST?

because that's idiotic.

The ceiling of a top 10 franchise QB is making consistent runs at super bowls.

The ceiling of a 6th round 3rd string "might as well develop a guy" who can "you know, maybe turn into a long term backup or something" is a player who probably never sees the field and offers your team no inherent value

That was an awful, awful post my man

[DubE_4MR]

Draft a QB in the 7th round - Develop him and may be flip him for a higher pick in a couple of years

 

vs.

 

Kendrick Norton

Terry Godwin

Beau Sandland

 

 

I'll try and develop the QB and get something out of the pick.

 

 

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, Growl said:

lol is this seriously the hill you wanna wage this war on

why don't we just not draft players at all so we don't have to fear the dreaded BUST?

because that's idiotic.

The ceiling of a top 10 franchise QB is making consistent runs at super bowls.

The ceiling of a 6th round 3rd string "might as well develop a guy" who can "you know, maybe turn into a long term backup or something" is a player who probably never sees the field and offers your team no inherent value

That was an awful, awful post my man

Nah man, it's your rationale that is not making sense.  Love is probably the only 1st round prospect available when we pick (over-hyped).  He's raw.  But you'd much rather take that shot than a near sure thing with Okunda, Brown, Simmons Wills, Wirfs etc...  By your own admission QBs even in the 1st round have a high bust rate.  So yeah, let's take a stab at a 1st round QB when it's really the Tua and Burrow show (both will be gone) because any other round for a QB is pointless to you.  I got you, I just think is it ridiculous.  That my friend is called a reach and is how you get burned.

[Growl]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Nah man, it's your rationale that is not making sense.  Love is probably the only 1st round prospect available when we pick (over-hyped).  He's raw.  But you'd much rather take that shot than a near sure thing with Okunda, Brown, Simmons Wills, Wirfs etc...  By your own admission QBs even in the 1st round have a high bust rate.  So yeah, let's take a stab at a 1st round QB when it's really the Tua and Burrow show (both will be gone) because any other round for a QB is pointless to you.  I got you, I just think is it ridiculous.  That my friend is called a reach and is how you get burned.

what exactly do your individual and bad opinions on Hugh ens quarterback prospects have to so with the inherent value of blowing a pick on a meaningless late round Quarterback? this is textbook moving the goalpost, no doubt because you realized that you couldnt make an argument justifying using a selection on a player who will never see the field. You briefly tried to argue it was more worthwhile to draft a QB in the 5th round than high, but shrunk from that once you saw the numbers. 

 

Other than that I don't see how your bad opinions on high end Quarterbacks with substantially higher ceilings and success rates justifies your premise. Because it doesn't. 

[Shocker]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not one to defend Marty, but he's not the only one with input here.

As has been mentioned, Matt Rhule has been said to be a fan of Grier.

If these “other people” cant see Allen is better than Grier we are in deep #$&t here.

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Yes--it is hype on discussion boards, but I said earlier--are we drafting a skill set or a savior?  These teams need "that guy."  So they reach out of desperation.  I mean, even if you look at player rankings, etc.  you tend to see QBs who are actually marginally-good listed in the top 32 some years.  They confuse their skill levels with where they expect to be drafted.

Yeah, that happens most years but especially in years with weak QB classes. It is just positional value and need. QB is the most valuable position in the NFL by a significant margin, so bad teams with high draft picks will reach. 

I don't even think most of them get confused about their skill level. Front offices are aware of what are good QB drafts and weak QB drafts. But, QB needy teams are gonna lean towards taking a QB in that top 10. It doesn't happen every year but most years it does. 

It is actually funny to look at the non-NFL draft gurus with their "Big Boards" that have a QB they know will be a top 10 pick be outside their top 30 prospects. It happens. Just the nature of that positional value.

[45catfan]

25 minutes ago, Growl said:

what exactly do your individual and bad opinions on Hugh ens quarterback prospects have to so with the inherent value of blowing a pick on a meaningless late round Quarterback? this is textbook moving the goalpost, no doubt because you realized that you couldnt make an argument justifying using a selection on a player who will never see the field. You briefly tried to argue it was more worthwhile to draft a QB in the 5th round than high, but shrunk from that once you saw the numbers. 

 

Other than that I don't see how your bad opinions on high end Quarterbacks with substantially higher ceilings and success rates justifies your premise. Because it doesn't. 

You are the one saying QBs outside of round one are worthless. I have contended day 3 prospects rarely stick at ANY position, so gives a flip if it is a QB, LB, K, P or LS. I hope you didn't spend too much time Googling that, because 1st round QBs do work out more than subsequent rounds, I never said they didn't. However in this relatively weak QB class, taking someone besides Burrow and possibly Tua amounts to a crap shoot.  If it's a crap shoot, why not take a position that is more of a sure thing?  It seems you would rather take a stab at Love or potentially Herbert than take the better value at another position.  Day 3 picks are for depth and if they work out great, and if not....par for the course.   To insinuate QBs are a horrible waste of a pick later in the draft just because first rounders pan out better, well then, lets condense the draft down to one round because the rest of the draft is a waste of time, you know because the success rate falls off and all.