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Kind of jazzed about this one...
 
19. Alijah Vera-Tucker OT USC
51. Creed Humphrey OC Oklahoma
81. Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
90. Amari Rodgers WR Clemson
135Robert Rochell CB Central Arkansas
142. Chuba Hubbard RB Oklahoma State
185. Robert Hainsey OG Notre Dame
 
2022 Washington 1st
2022 Minnesota 2nd
2022 Miami 5th
Edited by grimesgoat
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TAKING A POSITIVE LOOK AT MAC JONES AND DISMISSING THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT HIM IN MY HEAD.  BUILDING A CASE FOR DRAFTING MAC JONES INSTEAD OF TRADING UP OR SELLING THE FARM FOR WATSON.  THIS IS HOW I WOULD SELL IT IF I WERE HIS AGENT--AND THERE IS SOMETHING TO THIS LOGIC.

OK, without a combine and still 10 days or so until free agency, no real trades happening, this may be the dullest time of the offseason.  IF YOU DON'T LIKE LONG POSTS STOP READING NOW and go away.  IF YOUR MIND ABOUT QB IS SEALED SHUT AND YOU THINK JONES SUCKS AND REFUSE TO LISTEN TO A COUNTER ARGUMENT, go away.  We know you know all and thank you for your wisdom. Let's analyze how bad "He sucks!" would actually be for the Panthers--I brink a different perspective to the table--sorta--that probably needs more thought and open mindedness than it has been given.

A few anti Jones comments and the response:

1.  "He sucks." Yeah, a national championship.    His completion percentage was 77.4%.  He has 30 college games worth of experience in 3 seasons in the SEC. 

2.  "He was surrounded by superior talent."  So was Trevor Lawrence.  In 2020, He threw for 17 more TDs and about 1300 yards more than Trevor Lawrence, and he had 1 fewer interception in a tougher conference.

3.  "He is immobile." I am pretty sure Brady has 7 rings.  Besides, CMC can run, and he will be right beside him.

4.  "He looks like a frat boy on his sixth Spring Break"  So did the "lord of the (7) rings" who just won a Super Bowl at age 83.

So what is the issue with Jones again?  What could he have done more to prove that he can play QB?  He threw for 4500 yards this year.  Let that sink in. That is about 350 yards per game. 

So are we wise to sell the farm for a QB when we have access to a QB in this draft?  Watson is good, no doubt, but so is Trevor Lawrence, and Jones had better QB stats. Three first rounders?  CMC?  Burns?  Really??????  Let's take a look:

WATSON:  Will cost us 2 defensive players (Burns or Brown, for example) and CMC in his prime.  So we either go back to an average running attack and trade a defensive star from an already-struggling 3rd down inefficient defense while giving up our first round pick for this year and the next two years.  He may not even be an option, so why are focused on a QB who is under contract?

JONES:  Keep Burns and CMC--and the three first rounders.  Build around Jones and give him the equivalent protection and weapons he had at Bama.   Keep the first round picks for 3 seasons.  Jones is unproven, but so is Trevor Lawrence, if that is your argument, so we get that.

The Cap:  Carolina is sitting at $37m and could improve that considerably by trading Bridgewater and/or Shaq Thompson, if you believe in rumor.  However, nobody is (probably) going to bring in Teddy until after black Friday in the NFL.  So we shall see--So let's figure on about $35m, worst case scenario (the rest we create is for picks)

Looking at free agency, and I expect free agency to have some bargains this year, I expect the Panthers to grab a guard (Miller) and a few other free agents.  Remember, if we sign Watson, the ability to sign free agents drops dramatically. 

GUARD: John Miller RG about $3-4 million.  Miller was serviceable at RG and he knows Paradis and Moton.  Most of the OL woes were through LG/LT--that will be the focus this offseason.

INSIDE LINEBACKER: The draft has some decent LBs, and I hope we grab one there, but I like free agency (as it stands now) and think we could need 2 anyway.  Two values I see:  BJ Goodson (Cle) and Neville Hewitt (Jets).  Both will command decent salaries, but neither is elite. In this defense, we need solid MLBs to stop the run, for the most part.  I am guessing a salary in the $8m range.

SAFETY:  He may be pricey, but if the Jets get into the Watson sweepstakes, a few talented players could walk.  Marcus Maye (Jets) will be 28 and he has been productive.  Signing a proven, effective S who wants to win would be an important part of the S tandem in the big nickel.  I am guessing he will command a salary near $10m.  IF NOT, go with   Keanu Neal of Atlanta--if the Falcons are in cap hell and need a ton of OL help and can't cut Ryan or Jones--might a solid player like Neal be available?  Imagine Neal and Chinn on each side of the 3-3-5 set.  Neal might cost us around $10m, but he and Chinn would make the defense scary.

So I just spent $22m on 3 free agents before the draft and dealing with Moton and Samuel, and only the G helped us with any plan to give Jones the protection he will need.  Note: I did not like the talent poole/value at TE, CB, T, or WR.

TAG: Moton, but I would try to sign him for 4 seasons at about $60m.  If so, we are in position to give ourselves a break year 1 of that deal.  Let's say it costs us $8m in 2021.  We have spent $30m so far, and addressed some key needs.

Re-SIGN:  Curtis Samuel.  Do not overpay, but if he will not take a $6m per deal, grab one in the draft. 

NEEDS AFTER FREE AGENCY:  Offense-TE, LT, LG  Defense-CB, OLB, DE depth

THE DRAFT:  Heading into the draft, we know that Jones (if picked) would have WRs set, the right side of the OL set, and RB set.

ROUND 1:  Trade back 2-3 spots for an additional 3rd rounder.  A WR or DE will be there people covet.  Do not trade with a team seeking a QB.  Draft Jones, QB Alabama (I can hear the boos now, but you got this far)

ROUND 2:  Do not be surprised to see another trade back, but if not, we will be taking a LT.  We have Scott who is insurance right now, but a T is needed.  I could see a LG here if one drops, however.  I will go with a player like Liam Eichenberg, Notre Dame.  He is mechanically sound and can play day 1. 

ROUND 3:  Here, we have to take a CB and I am not sure we do not have to move up like we did for Chinn.  While we have Pride and Jackson on the outside, we need a guy we can put on a big, #1 WR.  Here, I would be thrilled with 6 footer Rodarius Williams from OK State.  I hope we can keep Elder on the cheap to play the slot, but we need 3 CBs.

ROUND 3 (via trade):  TE:  While most people do not want a TE this year, a TE would really open the offense for a young QB.  Pat Freiermuth (Penn State) or Brevin Jordan (Miami) could be there in the third round.  Some say these TEs will be gone early on day 2, but if one falls, take him.  If not, grab a LB.

ROUND 4:  At LG, I have Daley penciled in to start, but this is where I see the Panthers grabbing an OG from the Senior Bowl.  Rhule coached Trey Smith (Tennessee), Royce Newman (Miss) and Ben Cleveland (Georgia) but maybe he saw my favorite,  LG  Aaron Banks (Notre Dame) played well at the SR Bowl.  I expect Smith, Cleveland, or Banks to be there in round 4, so this pick will be a guard if you ask me.

Gonna stop here:

How did we get better?

1. Offensive line, left side.  Daley and a draft pick at LG, Scott and a draft pick at LT.

2. Tight End.  I think we are quietly better now, but a good TE is a young QBs best friend.

3. CMC returns, kept Samuel. Shake and Bake to surround the immobile QB.

4.  Third down defense--added a S in free agency, a solid CB in the draft. 

5.  First down defense--with a better MLB, Carter can go outside, Thompson can be traded.

There is still work to do, but with a first rounder in 2022 and 2023 AND with a ton of cap space expected in 2022, are we not in better shape than if we had a stud QB and no way to protect him, give him weapons, or give him a defense that makes the other team punt?  Did we not have that in Cam Newton, and we were only good every other year?  Just a thought.

 

THIS WAS ALL HYPOTHETICAL, but maybe surrounding a QB who has thrown completions at 77% and has a 10-1 TD/Int ratio would be an upgrade IF we built around him. Are we so fixated on the running, mobile QB that we are overlooking a gem sitting right in front of us? COULD WE BUILD A SYSTEM OF SUPPORT AROUND JONES AND MAKE HIM ELITE? 

Did this for me--but thought I would share.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

TAKING A POSITIVE LOOK AT MAC JONES AND DISMISSING THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT HIM IN MY HEAD.  BUILDING A CASE FOR DRAFTING MAC JONES INSTEAD OF TRADING UP OR SELLING THE FARM FOR WATSON.  THIS IS HOW I WOULD SELL IT IF I WERE HIS AGENT--AND THERE IS SOMETHING TO THIS LOGIC.

OK, without a combine and still 10 days or so until free agency, no real trades happening, this may be the dullest time of the offseason.  IF YOU DON'T LIKE LONG POSTS STOP READING NOW and go away.  IF YOUR MIND ABOUT QB IS SEALED SHUT AND YOU THINK JONES SUCKS AND REFUSE TO LISTEN TO A COUNTER ARGUMENT, go away.  We know you know all and thank you for your wisdom. Let's analyze how bad "He sucks!" would actually be for the Panthers--I brink a different perspective to the table--sorta--that probably needs more thought and open mindedness than it has been given.

A few anti Jones comments and the response:

1.  "He sucks." Yeah, a national championship.    His completion percentage was 77.4%.  He has 30 college games worth of experience in 3 seasons in the SEC. 

2.  "He was surrounded by superior talent."  So was Trevor Lawrence.  In 2020, He threw for 17 more TDs and about 1300 yards more than Trevor Lawrence, and he had 1 fewer interception in a tougher conference.

3.  "He is immobile." I am pretty sure Brady has 7 rings.  Besides, CMC can run, and he will be right beside him.

4.  "He looks like a frat boy on his sixth Spring Break"  So did the "lord of the (7) rings" who just won a Super Bowl at age 83.

So what is the issue with Jones again?  What could he have done more to prove that he can play QB?  He threw for 4500 yards this year.  Let that sink in. That is about 350 yards per game. 

So are we wise to sell the farm for a QB when we have access to a QB in this draft?  Watson is good, no doubt, but so is Trevor Lawrence, and Jones had better QB stats. Three first rounders?  CMC?  Burns?  Really??????  Let's take a look:

WATSON:  Will cost us 2 defensive players (Burns or Brown, for example) and CMC in his prime.  So we either go back to an average running attack and trade a defensive star from an already-struggling 3rd down inefficient defense while giving up our first round pick for this year and the next two years.  He may not even be an option, so why are focused on a QB who is under contract?

JONES:  Keep Burns and CMC--and the three first rounders.  Build around Jones and give him the equivalent protection and weapons he had at Bama.   Keep the first round picks for 3 seasons.  Jones is unproven, but so is Trevor Lawrence, if that is your argument, so we get that.

The Cap:  Carolina is sitting at $37m and could improve that considerably by trading Bridgewater and/or Shaq Thompson, if you believe in rumor.  However, nobody is (probably) going to bring in Teddy until after black Friday in the NFL.  So we shall see--So let's figure on about $35m, worst case scenario (the rest we create is for picks)

Looking at free agency, and I expect free agency to have some bargains this year, I expect the Panthers to grab a guard (Miller) and a few other free agents.  Remember, if we sign Watson, the ability to sign free agents drops dramatically. 

GUARD: John Miller RG about $3-4 million.  Miller was serviceable at RG and he knows Paradis and Moton.  Most of the OL woes were through LG/LT--that will be the focus this offseason.

INSIDE LINEBACKER: The draft has some decent LBs, and I hope we grab one there, but I like free agency (as it stands now) and think we could need 2 anyway.  Two values I see:  BJ Goodson (Cle) and Neville Hewitt (Jets).  Both will command decent salaries, but neither is elite. In this defense, we need solid MLBs to stop the run, for the most part.  I am guessing a salary in the $8m range.

SAFETY:  He may be pricey, but if the Jets get into the Watson sweepstakes, a few talented players could walk.  Marcus Maye (Jets) will be 28 and he has been productive.  Signing a proven, effective S who wants to win would be an important part of the S tandem in the big nickel.  I am guessing he will command a salary near $10m.  IF NOT, go with   Keanu Neal of Atlanta--if the Falcons are in cap hell and need a ton of OL help and can't cut Ryan or Jones--might a solid player like Neal be available?  Imagine Neal and Chinn on each side of the 3-3-5 set.  Neal might cost us around $10m, but he and Chinn would make the defense scary.

So I just spent $22m on 3 free agents before the draft and dealing with Moton and Samuel, and only the G helped us with any plan to give Jones the protection he will need.  Note: I did not like the talent poole/value at TE, CB, T, or WR.

TAG: Moton, but I would try to sign him for 4 seasons at about $60m.  If so, we are in position to give ourselves a break year 1 of that deal.  Let's say it costs us $8m in 2021.  We have spent $30m so far, and addressed some key needs.

Re-SIGN:  Curtis Samuel.  Do not overpay, but if he will not take a $6m per deal, grab one in the draft. 

NEEDS AFTER FREE AGENCY:  Offense-TE, LT, LG  Defense-CB, OLB, DE depth

THE DRAFT:  Heading into the draft, we know that Jones (if picked) would have WRs set, the right side of the OL set, and RB set.

ROUND 1:  Trade back 2-3 spots for an additional 3rd rounder.  A WR or DE will be there people covet.  Do not trade with a team seeking a QB.  Draft Jones, QB Alabama (I can hear the boos now, but you got this far)

ROUND 2:  Do not be surprised to see another trade back, but if not, we will be taking a LT.  We have Scott who is insurance right now, but a T is needed.  I could see a LG here if one drops, however.  I will go with a player like Liam Eichenberg, Notre Dame.  He is mechanically sound and can play day 1. 

ROUND 3:  Here, we have to take a CB and I am not sure we do not have to move up like we did for Chinn.  While we have Pride and Jackson on the outside, we need a guy we can put on a big, #1 WR.  Here, I would be thrilled with 6 footer Rodarius Williams from OK State.  I hope we can keep Elder on the cheap to play the slot, but we need 3 CBs.

ROUND 3 (via trade):  TE:  While most people do not want a TE this year, a TE would really open the offense for a young QB.  Pat Freiermuth (Penn State) or Brevin Jordan (Miami) could be there in the third round.  Some say these TEs will be gone early on day 2, but if one falls, take him.  If not, grab a LB.

ROUND 4:  At LG, I have Daley penciled in to start, but this is where I see the Panthers grabbing an OG from the Senior Bowl.  Rhule coached Trey Smith (Tennessee), Royce Newman (Miss) and Ben Cleveland (Georgia) but maybe he saw my favorite,  LG  Aaron Banks (Notre Dame) played well at the SR Bowl.  I expect Smith, Cleveland, or Banks to be there in round 4, so this pick will be a guard if you ask me.

Gonna stop here:

How did we get better?

1. Offensive line, left side.  Daley and a draft pick at LG, Scott and a draft pick at LT.

2. Tight End.  I think we are quietly better now, but a good TE is a young QBs best friend.

3. CMC returns, kept Samuel. Shake and Bake to surround the immobile QB.

4.  Third down defense--added a S in free agency, a solid CB in the draft. 

5.  First down defense--with a better MLB, Carter can go outside, Thompson can be traded.

There is still work to do, but with a first rounder in 2022 and 2023 AND with a ton of cap space expected in 2022, are we not in better shape than if we had a stud QB and no way to protect him, give him weapons, or give him a defense that makes the other team punt?  Did we not have that in Cam Newton, and we were only good every other year?  Just a thought.

 

THIS WAS ALL HYPOTHETICAL, but maybe surrounding a QB who has thrown completions at 77% and has a 10-1 TD/Int ratio would be an upgrade IF we built around him. Are we so fixated on the running, mobile QB that we are overlooking a gem sitting right in front of us? COULD WE BUILD A SYSTEM OF SUPPORT AROUND JONES AND MAKE HIM ELITE? 

Did this for me--but thought I would share.

By the way, Rhule called him "very intelligent" at the SR bowl.  Later, he talked about processing and how young QBs do not process as quickly as vets.  Could be be signaling his love for Jones?  Could Jones actually be the guy?  I doubt it, because we went after Stafford hard, but that does not mean we would have have drafted Jones some how.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

At Alabama Practice when Jones was the scout QB:

Alabama insider Charlie Potter shared a story from Alabama safety Jared Mayden about Jones’ time on the Crimson Tide’s scout team. As the story goes, Jones wouldn’t stop “throwing bombs” to wide receiver Tyrell Shavers.

Nick Saban wasn’t happy about it and said to Jones, “Man, stop throwing it to him all the time.” Mac Jones quipped back, “Well, tell your defense to stop it.”

Starting to like this guy

Edited by MHS831
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Would I be mad for drafting Jones?  If Lance is already gone, not really.  The biggest thing about drafting Jones is the OL has to go from the outhouse to the penthouse overnight.  Dude is a pure pocket passer...period, and will need protection to be successful.  Jones would be a stud behind Indy's OL.  Here with our current OL?  He'd be pummeled to somewhere between livermush and roadkill.

Edited by 45catfan
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