Wilks' Post-Game Locker Room talk vs. Saints

[Tr3ach]

22 minutes ago, ickmule said:

Not the fault of Wilks. This team isn’t his and he did a damn good job keeping it together.  He’s a good man and he will land on his feet and kick ass no matter where he ends up.  I for  one hope it’s In Carolina and HC.  He has earned it.  

From everything I've seen he is a good dude and a fine coach, just not a really good one.  I dont have any interest in another fox/rivera style coach.  Average isnt good enough. 

[YourLastThought]

43 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Why? He had 1 catch for 2 yards before the Saints went into prevent mode on the last drive and left him wide open for his second catch. 17 catches and 28 catches in 2 years doesn’t make me giddy. 1 TD in 2 years?

In the 2021 draft, 4 WRs drafted later than him, a WR dumped by his drafting team, a WR who missed 16 games due to injury, and 3 RBs drafted later than him have more career receptions than Marshall. Heck, our rock handed backup RB and backup TE drafted that year have only 6 receptions less.

He played better than his rookie year but 28 receptions by your WR2? That’s awful. He was 152th in receptions according to ESPN before this week and his 2 receptions. That’s including RBs and TEs. Outside of the OL, who were healthy this year, Marshall was 2nd in offensive snap counts to DJ.

Also, having a big WR doesn’t give me warm fuzzies with 1 TD after 2 years.

KB (2 years) 136-1949-16TD

Funchess (2 years) 54-844-9TD

Marshall (2 years) 45-628-1TD

Not living up to Funchess, who was drafted around the same slot and was the 3rd receiving option behind KB/Ginn and Olsen isn’t good even if we don’t have Cam. Cam was never putting up 5000 yard passing seasons. We only had 300-500 less passing yards the past two years than we did in Cam’s MVP season (10-15% less).

I guess Marshall could break out at some time but it’s not good that he’s not even close to living up to two big WRs who had to contend with Olsen. Heck, take out Olsen and WRs may have more receiving yards in 2021-2022 than 2014-2016.

IMHO, we need a better WR to pair with DJ.

We still need to hang on to him and continue to develop in hopes he will pan out well but i agree we need to search for more at WR definitely until he proves it or incase he never does.

[Icege]

9 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I also think you are missing another safety deep. I only see 10 defenders and I recall after Marshall caught it that there were two safeties that came in from a TV angle from behind the play.

Your memory might not be as solid as you recalled it being there bubba because you most certainly are making stuff up here.

The only other safety was Sorensen, and he was underneath trailing Chuba. It was single-deep with Matthieu as mentioned earlier.

[TylerDurden]

I really do love me some Wilks, and all things considered, what he did in the final 12 games is nothing short of amazing.  

I still want an OC, but I feel bad for even saying that.  Wilks deserves to be a HC in the NFL, but I just don't want the conservative stuff we've endured for almost 30 years for another 3-5 years.

[Zaximus]

Yeah this team just needs a culture shift from the conservative play.  We've just had too much of it for too long.  Wilks should be coaching somewhere I just don't think it should be here.  I also have my reservations about the lack of in game coaching and game time adjustments.  Just like Ron.  But without a generational talent at QB and LB to carry you a bit.

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Why? He had 1 catch for 2 yards before the Saints went into prevent mode on the last drive and left him wide open for his second catch. 17 catches and 28 catches in 2 years doesn’t make me giddy. 1 TD in 2 years?

In the 2021 draft, 4 WRs drafted later than him, a WR dumped by his drafting team, a WR who missed 16 games due to injury, and 3 RBs drafted later than him have more career receptions than Marshall. Heck, our rock handed backup RB and backup TE drafted that year have only 6 receptions less.

He played better than his rookie year but 28 receptions by your WR2? That’s awful. He was 152th in receptions according to ESPN before this week and his 2 receptions. That’s including RBs and TEs. Outside of the OL, who were healthy this year, Marshall was 2nd in offensive snap counts to DJ.

Also, having a big WR doesn’t give me warm fuzzies with 1 TD after 2 years.

KB (2 years) 136-1949-16TD

Funchess (2 years) 54-844-9TD

Marshall (2 years) 45-628-1TD

Not living up to Funchess, who was drafted around the same slot and was the 3rd receiving option behind KB/Ginn and Olsen isn’t good even if we don’t have Cam. Cam was never putting up 5000 yard passing seasons. We only had 300-500 less passing yards the past two years than we did in Cam’s MVP season (10-15% less).

I guess Marshall could break out at some time but it’s not good that he’s not even close to living up to two big WRs who had to contend with Olsen. Heck, take out Olsen and WRs may have more receiving yards in 2021-2022 than 2014-2016.

IMHO, we need a better WR to pair with DJ.

I dint have any problem calling a guy out or giving up on him when it's clear he isn't going to develop or just isn't good...  I dont feel that way with TMJ at all.  

It's tough to talk about stats considering the dysfunction offensive system that he, and all the other offensive guys have played under for the last 2+ years.  It's kind of hard to judge what he should or could have done, just as it is with all the other guys who have played in it.  Darnold and Baker looked like they shouldn't even be in the league after playing in this offense under Rhule - both have looked very different and at least NFL-caliber since he was fired.  I think that's important to consider in any evaluation of talent at this point. 

What we know is that TMJ has impressive physical skills and measureables.  We also have seen evidence that he knows how to use them - his route running is VERY impressive for his size, and he also had begun to be featured as a high-point-ball guy once he emerged from the doghouse when Rhule was fired.  Everyone who has been at TC the last two years has spoke glowingly of how he has performed there, so again, we know the ability is evident, and unlike a guy like Shi, who I was high on for the last two preseasons, TMJ has actually produced some big plays when it mattered, REPEATEDLY.  So I'm holding onto hope for his future.  I think he could take a huge leap next year...  that doesn't mean we don't acquire any other talent at the position, but just that TMJ should definitely be in the fold going forward.  I'm very hopeful and excited about what he can do with an extended opportunity.

[Icege]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

It definitely might not be as solid and maybe I’m mixed up on the angles as I recall the two Saints behind him (your second photo) but I thought the angle after the catch was from behind Darnold.

Anyway, I don’t make up stuff, but I did remember wrong. My main point was that Lattimore was absolutely playing outside and letting him go inside. People seem to love Marshall but that play was the easiest throw for Sam all day. It’s not a play that made me anymore excited for Marshall. He hasn’t shown much at all even in a run where Sam’s been decent. I want a WR upgrade to go with DJ.

One other question is where is the 11th defender? I only see 10 in the picture above.

All 11 defenders were on the field.

At this point the only thing that you're not making up/remembering incorrectly is that TMJ caught the ball over the middle.

[stratocatter]

Draft and sign away, get WRs in here and let them compete. Absolutely. We do need more talent there. 

But I don’t think a stat based argument is even very relevant talking about a WR on this team. Unless maybe you can find a stat that ties into bottom rung QB play. 
 

In some context..  the numbers in a game where the player accounts for 40% of team’s receptions, around 50% of a QBs passing yards, etc etc, should be weighted somehow to reflect his production in those circumstances.  

I mean, getting on a guy because he didn’t get opportunities is a big component to what is happening here. 

Hard to express my boredom with stat arguments in many cases.
An example is people use stats to tout the pass defense of a team that can’t stop the run, and rank them high based on the numbers. This is the routine.
Who is gonna pass against them when you can run all day (besides. Mike Martz or somebody) Don’t those numbers give a false impression? People don’t throw because they don’t have to, and the yardage totals might be used to support the position that they Can’t throw (you know, because of that great pass defense).