Would you trade the 39th and 61st picks for Justin Fields?

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, OldhamA said:

If the Bears even contemplated this trade then you'd have to question what's wrong with Fields.

Definitely 

[CamWhoaaCam]

34 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

People aren't comfortable staying put. They know you have to have a QB to win. They also realize it takes more than a QB to win. Paying an obscene contract and trading away multiple picks is going to make winning the NFC and a possible SB much more difficult. Then you also have to ask yourself, if these guys are so amazing, why are their franchises willing to let them walk? And just saying they're cheap isn't an answer. It's about maximizing value. 

Having a 2 million dollar sports car is great but if you can never get it above 80, what's the point? I'd rather have a nice car I can drive, a lake house, and a boat to take out on weekends with some extra money in the bank than a car that can never realize it's maximum potential for the same amount of money. 

My man our roster overall is pretty solid. You act like we have major holes. We finally have a decent Oline, we have a great your DB, a great young pass rusher DE.

 

What we don't have is the most important position in football which is QB.

 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

48 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

My man our roster overall is pretty solid. You act like we have major holes. We finally have a decent Oline, we have a great your DB, a great young pass rusher DE.

 

What we don't have is the most important position in football which is QB.

 

 

It takes an entire team to win a championship, not just a QB. Paying 50 or 60m a year guaranteed for a QB is insane when you have to add in the picks it will cost to go get LJ or AR. Why do you think Brady constantly took less than market value, other than the fact he was making it up in his TB12 BS the Patriots were using and Giselle made more than him? He knew that he couldn't win it all alone. AR or LJ aren't going to get players to come here on a discount for a SB shot. Neither is a rookie QB. There are 52 other players to pay as well as QB.

Contrary to what you think, LJ has asked for a fully guaranteed contract. At this point, he's trying to save face because he exercised extremely questionable judgement regarding hiring an agent. I hold far more credibility to DeMaurice Smith than SAS in that regard. That young pass rushing DE will be gone because we won't be able to pay him $30m a year. Bozeman too. Can't pay him if you sign AR or LJ. That leaves you the masterful Pat Elfein. Without young high end talent to replace those that are let go, overall talent level will decline. You better hope that Fitts is an amazing GM because he's going to need to hit on 3 years worth of 3rd - 7th round starters and significant contributors to fill out the roster. 

This is about more than a single year. If we were a QB away from a SB run, I'd say go for it. We aren't. We haven't built well over the past couple of years. We have some good pieces, but we are very shallow behind those. We're also changing from 4-3 base to 3-4 base which is going to require some shifting and adding in personnel. We need a NT, RB, TE or two, WR, return guy, edge, LBs, FS, slot corner and CB2 (Dante is coming off an Achilles and CJ isn't starter material yet if ever), IOL(C/G preferably), swing tackle, oh yeah, and a franchise QB. That's a lot to pull off in a single year, even 2, not to mention the players that will be leaving in FA, retirement or injury. And you can forget being active in FA because we won't have the cap room to do it. 

There's a right way and a wrong way to build a contender. Either get your franchise QB in the draft, which I prefer or trade for a LJ, AR, Stafford if you're ready to run now. As long as our FO and coaches believe that the QB they can get has all the attributes necessary to become a franchise QB, great. Go get him if you can. But that means you also need to open yourself to the possibility it could be Carr, Minshew, Brisett, Hooker, Corral, or someone other than Stroud or Young. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

9 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It takes an entire team to win a championship, not just a QB. Paying 50 or 60m a year guaranteed for a QB is insane when you have to add in the picks it will cost to go get LJ or AR. Why do you think Brady constantly took less than market value, other than the fact he was making it up in his TB12 BS the Patriots were using and Giselle made more than him? He knew that he couldn't win it all alone. AR or LJ aren't going to get players to come here on a discount for a SB shot. Neither is a rookie QB. There are 52 other players to pay as well as QB.

Contrary to what you think, LJ has asked for a fully guaranteed contract. At this point, he's trying to save face because he exercised extremely questionable judgement regarding hiring an agent. I hold far more credibility to DeMaurice Smith than SAS in that regard. That young pass rushing DE will be gone because we won't be able to pay him $30m a year. Bozeman too. Can't pay him if you sign AR or LJ. That leaves you the masterful Pat Elfein. Without young high end talent to replace those that are let go, overall talent level will decline. You better hope that Fitts is an amazing GM because he's going to need to hit on 3 years worth of 3rd - 7th round starters and significant contributors to fill out the roster. 

This is about more than a single year. If we were a QB away from a SB run, I'd say go for it. We aren't. We haven't built well over the past couple of years. We have some good pieces, but we are very shallow behind those. We're also changing from 4-3 base to 3-4 base which is going to require some shifting and adding in personnel. We need a NT, RB, TE or two, WR, return guy, edge, LBs, FS, slot corner and CB2 (Dante is coming off an Achilles and CJ isn't starter material yet if ever), IOL(C/G preferably), swing tackle, oh yeah, and a franchise QB. That's a lot to pull off in a single year, even 2, not to mention the players that will be leaving in FA, retirement or injury. And you can forget being active in FA because we won't have the cap room to do it. 

There's a right way and a wrong way to build a contender. Either get your franchise QB in the draft, which I prefer or trade for a LJ, AR, Stafford if you're ready to run now. As long as our FO and coaches believe that the QB they can get has all the attributes necessary to become a franchise QB, great. Go get him if you can. But that means you also need to open yourself to the possibility it could be Carr, Minshew, Brisett, Hooker, Corral, or someone other than Stroud or Young. 

Ask the 49ers how that turns out.

 

They have been favored to win the NFC for years and they can never win the SB because of their QB. No matter how much talent you have you aren't going to win without that QB.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Ask the 49ers how that turns out.

 

They have been favored to win the NFC for years and they can never win the SB because of their QB. No matter how much talent you have you aren't going to win without that QB.

The 49ers made it to the NFCCG this year with their 4th string QB. If he hadn't gotten massively injured in that game, it could very well be different. He outplayed the guy they traded 3 1sts to get. Coaching matters more than draft hype. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

4 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The 49ers made it to the NFCCG this year with their 4th string QB. If he hadn't gotten massively injured in that game, it could very well be different. He outplayed the guy they traded 3 1sts to get. Coaching matters more than draft hype. 

I don't live on what if's.

 

 

[PleaseCutStewart]

I don't think there is any way the Bears seek less than a 1st for Fields. And even if that trade were on the table, it's still a hard pass.

[SmokinwithWilly]

14 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I don't live on what if's.

 

 

Fact. 49ers made it to the NFC championship on their 3rd string QB

Fact. Both 49ers QBs suffered game ending injuries. 

Fact. 49ers could not pass because their QB couldn't grip the football and their offense became one dimensional

Fact. 3 1sts for Trey Lance is looking like a massive bust right now based on injury and performance history

Fact. Neither AR nor LJ were in the championship game. Neither got it done. 

Fact. If AR or LJ had damaged their ulnar nerve that severely in game, they wouldn't be passing either and would have lost. 

Fact: Going and spending every asset you have to get AR or LJ or Stroud or Young or whatever shiny object QB you want isn't going to guarantee a Super Bowl win. 

Fact: You need effective, smart coaches and a smart FO to assemble as complete a team as possible, not just a QB. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by SmokinwithWilly

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Fact. 49ers made it to the NFC championship on their 3rd string QB

Fact. Both 49ers QBs suffered game ending injuries. 

Fact. 49ers could not pass because their QB couldn't grip the football and their offense became one dimensional

Fact. 3 1sts for Trey Lance is looking like a massive bust right now based on injury and performance history

Fact. Neither AR nor LJ were in the championship game. Neither got it done. 

Fact. If AR or LJ had damaged their ulnar nerve that severely in game, they wouldn't be passing either and would have lost. 

Fact: Going and spending every asset you have to get AR or LJ or Stroud or Young or whatever shiny object QB you want isn't going to guarantee a Super Bowl win. 

Fact: You need effective, smart coaches and a smart FO to assemble as complete a team as possible, not just a QB. 

He doesn't get it, dude.

[CamWhoaaCam]

43 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Fact. 49ers made it to the NFC championship on their 3rd string QB

Fact. Both 49ers QBs suffered game ending injuries. 

Fact. 49ers could not pass because their QB couldn't grip the football and their offense became one dimensional

Fact. 3 1sts for Trey Lance is looking like a massive bust right now based on injury and performance history

Fact. Neither AR nor LJ were in the championship game. Neither got it done. 

Fact. If AR or LJ had damaged their ulnar nerve that severely in game, they wouldn't be passing either and would have lost. 

Fact: Going and spending every asset you have to get AR or LJ or Stroud or Young or whatever shiny object QB you want isn't going to guarantee a Super Bowl win. 

Fact: You need effective, smart coaches and a smart FO to assemble as complete a team as possible, not just a QB. 

Very curious what is your plan stay at #9 and what do we do at QB?

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Very curious what is your plan stay at #9 and what do we do at QB?

My plan is to let the guys in charge do a proper evaluation of all players, even the ones I'm not particularly fond of, and choose the best move to make for the franchise. 

But there's a laundry list of questions to be answered regarding the available QBs. For those in the draft, they have to be evaluated and their overall potential ranked. I don't see a franchise maker such as Burrow, Lawrence, Mahomes, Allen sitting there at 1. If they were, Chicago wouldn't be willing to trade out. That changes how I proceed from there. 

I add Minshew as a FA QB. We need a vet QB if we don't go after one of the top 3 available. Having him allows some freedom in the draft and you don't have to act out of desperation. Stroud/Young are likely going 1/2. Unless we're willing to pay a small fortune, we aren't getting either. I see Indy possibly moving up to 1 or Houston. Chicago could end up trading down twice, end up at 4 and still get Carter or Anderson which would be ideal for them. Someone is going to fall, Levis or AR, but how far. I'd sit at 9 because the Raiders or Atlanta could take one if they don't end up with LJ or AR. I think one does. That leaves us with choice of the 4th QB, or in position to trade back if we have a partner. 

Personally, I'd like to trade back into the teens or early 20s, pick up a couple extra 2s, grab Mayer or Battle in the 1st, and go into the 2nd with 4 picks. In the 2nd, I'd like to add Sewell with the 1st pick, Ika with the 2nd, Nolan Smith 3rd (don't know if he lasts that long), and then Hooker with the 4th. I like him as a prospect and while he does need development, he also has shown he doesn't wilt in the moment which I really like. That should give us a chance to evaluate Corral and Hooker both. Minshew isn't as bad as he's made out to be. 

Again, all this is dependent on where AR, LJ, and DC end up and how evaluations go. All of this is speculation and could change tomorrow. I trust the braintrust we have in the coaches' offices right now. There's over a century of experience in those rooms. Getting the right fit at QB is more important than necessarily getting the draft or FA darling. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

My plan is to let the guys in charge do a proper evaluation of all players, even the ones I'm not particularly fond of, and choose the best move to make for the franchise. 

But there's a laundry list of questions to be answered regarding the available QBs. For those in the draft, they have to be evaluated and their overall potential ranked. I don't see a franchise maker such as Burrow, Lawrence, Mahomes, Allen sitting there at 1. If they were, Chicago wouldn't be willing to trade out. That changes how I proceed from there. 

I add Minshew as a FA QB. We need a vet QB if we don't go after one of the top 3 available. Having him allows some freedom in the draft and you don't have to act out of desperation. Stroud/Young are likely going 1/2. Unless we're willing to pay a small fortune, we aren't getting either. I see Indy possibly moving up to 1 or Houston. Chicago could end up trading down twice, end up at 4 and still get Carter or Anderson which would be ideal for them. Someone is going to fall, Levis or AR, but how far. I'd sit at 9 because the Raiders or Atlanta could take one if they don't end up with LJ or AR. I think one does. That leaves us with choice of the 4th QB, or in position to trade back if we have a partner. 

Personally, I'd like to trade back into the teens or early 20s, pick up a couple extra 2s, grab Mayer or Battle in the 1st, and go into the 2nd with 4 picks. In the 2nd, I'd like to add Sewell with the 1st pick, Ika with the 2nd, Nolan Smith 3rd (don't know if he lasts that long), and then Hooker with the 4th. I like him as a prospect and while he does need development, he also has shown he doesn't wilt in the moment which I really like. That should give us a chance to evaluate Corral and Hooker both. Minshew isn't as bad as he's made out to be. 

Again, all this is dependent on where AR, LJ, and DC end up and how evaluations go. All of this is speculation and could change tomorrow. I trust the braintrust we have in the coaches' offices right now. There's over a century of experience in those rooms. Getting the right fit at QB is more important than necessarily getting the draft or FA darling. 

He doesn't know how to answer you, dude.

Here's the thing: You're approaching this as someone trying to have an adult conversation about football. That isn't what this is because our friend here either can't do that, isn't interested in doing that or both.

What's really happening here is much more akin to a parent trying to explain to a small child who's screaming that they want a PlayStation 5 why they can't have one right now.

They don't care what you have to say, they're not gonna listen to reason, they don't understand real world issues and concerns. And in the end, the best possible explanation you give is likely to be met with a response of "I DON'T CARE! I WANT IT!"

If you've followed his other conversations, you'll see exactly what I mean, and sadly why all the intelligent discussion in the world just isn't gonna register.

[CPcavedweller]

For two 2nd round picks this year and no players or future draft picks, plus we get to keep our first? With Jim Caldwell and Frank Reich? Running the Rams offense? Re-sign D'onta Foreman? DJ Moore, Terrace Marshall and hopefully Mims? 

Abso-fuging-LOOTely

I just wouldn't trade a 1st, or multiple 1sts, for him. I wouldn't trade 1st's for anyone. This team needs a core of talent. You don't get that by being a dumbass and trading away the only assets you have to build out your roster. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He doesn't know how to answer you, dude.

Here's the thing: You're approaching this as someone trying to have an adult conversation about football. That isn't what this is because our friend here either can't do that, isn't interested in doing that or both.

What's really happening here is much more akin to a parent trying to explain to a small child who's screaming that they want a PlayStation 5 why they can't have one right now.

They don't care what you have to say, they're not gonna listen to reason, they don't understand real world issues and concerns. And in the end, the best possible explanation you give is likely to be met with a response of "I DON'T CARE! I WANT IT!"

If you've followed his other conversations, you'll see exactly what I mean, and sadly why all the intelligent discussion in the world just isn't gonna register.

I know. I'm just hoping some other football discussions can come from it. Like turning our 1st into another 1 and a couple more 2s and what we could do with those resources. We could fill a lot of gaps by not being desperate. The Darnold trade shows how bad you get screwed when you're desperate.