Game Tape vs Workouts

[Jon Snow]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

Yeah and honestly he didn't do a very good job doing that in previous years... (Robbie, Ian Thomas etc, and us being over the cap after a bad season).  Unless maybe he advised against it and Rhule/Fitt just rolled with it anyway.  Regardless he is more of a cap/numbers guy vs a scout/player development guy.  We have plenty of scout/player development guys on this new staff and several of them were at the combine watching the workouts and conducting interviews.

Yes of course.  He doesn't overrule his boss, he can't. He can only offer his opinion.  But in the end he has to TRY to make it work but he cannot stop them from doing something stupid like you mentioned above. 

[top dawg]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah and honestly he didn't do a very good job doing that in previous years... (Robbie, Ian Thomas etc, and us being over the cap after a bad season).  Unless maybe he advised against it and Rhule/Fitt just rolled with it anyway.  Regardless he is more of a cap/numbers guy vs a scout/player development guy.  We have plenty of scout/player development guys on this new staff and several of them were at the combine watching the workouts and conducting interviews.

Kinda hard to blame Suleiman for the final contract numbers. That's above his pay grade. That's a Rhule and/or Fitterer issue.

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I mean, technically you're right, but that doesn't mean that that's all that he does. And who knows, his role could have expanded, especially with theore knowledge that he shows. I mean, he is being groomed to be a GM.

 

"Fitterer said that Suleiman could also help the front office in player evaluation."

https://www.panthers.com/news/panthers-promote-salary-cap-manager-samir-suleiman

 

Maybe they are learning that his past advice turned out to be right? There is some reason he is being considered for a promotion to a future role as a GM. It's not just because he's good at contract numbers. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Yes of course.  He doesn't overrule his boss, he can't. He can only offer his opinion.  But in the end he has to TRY to make it work but he cannot stop them from doing something stupid like you mentioned above. 

But the issue is we don't know if he was against it or not.  If his job is to make the salary cap work and we are sitting with a top 10 pick and currently OVER the cap he didn't do a good job right?  Our dead cap hit is pretty nasty this year.  Maybe that was Rhule's fault maybe it was Fitt's, but with it being very gray about who did what how can we say he was good at his job?  Sure he can give input on player evaluations so can John from accounting, but he really needs to focus on the cap and helping out franchise stay out of cap trouble for the long term.  

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Kinda hard to blame Suleiman for the final contract numbers. That's above his pay grade. That's a Rhule and/or Fitterer issue.

So our dead cap hit this year.  Who is responsible for that?  Better yet, what is Suleiman actually responsible for?  What did he do that was good or great over these past few years?  

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Maybe they are learning that his past advice turned out to be right? There is some reason he is being considered for a promotion to a future role as a GM. It's not just because he's good at contract numbers. 

I was just told he doesn't do contract numbers.  That was Fitt/Rhule right @top dawg?

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

But the issue is we don't know if he was against it or not.  If his job is to make the salary cap work and we are sitting with a top 10 pick and currently OVER the cap he didn't do a good job right?  Our dead cap hit is pretty nasty this year.  Maybe that was Rhule's fault maybe it was Fitt's, but with it being very gray about who did what how can we say he was good at his job?  Sure he can give input on player evaluations so can John from accounting, but he really needs to focus on the cap and helping out franchise stay out of cap trouble for the long term.  

I do not know whether he's doing a good job or not. That's Fitterer and Teppers decision.  He must be doing something right for them to be prepping him for a GM role. 

[top dawg]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

I was just told he doesn't do contract numbers.  That was Fitt/Rhule right @top dawg?

Not quite. What I said is that he isn't responsible for the final number. It's his job to make all the numbers work. Apparently he must do a pretty good job of that because he's well-respected across the league. Come on, now. Don't be a Scot!

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Not quite. What I said is that he isn't responsible for the final number. It's his job to make all the numbers work. Apparently he must do a pretty good job of that because he's well-respected across the league. Come on, now. Don't be a Scot!

Well-respected by who? 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Not quite. What I said is that he isn't responsible for the final number. It's his job to make all the numbers work. Apparently he must do a pretty good job of that because he's well-respected across the league. Come on, now. Don't be a Scot!

So he is good at contract numbers, but doesn't handle the FINAL contracts??  I'm just saying I keep hearing his name come up yet I look at how our cap has been handled and I can't find a positive correlation.  It seems like it's one of those "oh if the number were bad he must have been overruled, but if they are good it was all him" moments.  Must be nice having a job with no real responsibility or accountability...  Does not agreeing with you make be a Scot?

[top dawg]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

So he is good at contract numbers, but doesn't handle the FINAL contracts??  I'm just saying I keep hearing his name come up yet I look at how our cap has been handled and I can't find a positive correlation.  It seems like it's one of those "oh if the number were bad he must have been overruled, but if they are good it was all him" moments.  Must be nice having a job with no real responsibility or accountability...  Does not agreeing with you make be a Scot?

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. Are you disagreeing that he's being prepared to be a GM? Are you disagreeing that he has scouting experience? Are you disagreeing that Rhule and/or Fitterer were/are ultimately responsible for a player's contract? Are you disagreeing that it's the cap guy's job to facilitate on paper whatever the acquisitions that those above him want to make? Are you disagreeing that Suleiman is well-respected across the league? I don't get it. If you're disagreeing with all that, then that's fine, but I don't. 

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. Are you disagreeing that he's being prepared to be a GM? Are you disagreeing that he has scouting experience? Are you disagreeing that Rhule and/or Fitterer were/are ultimately responsible for a player's contract? Are you disagreeing that it's the cap guy's job to facilitate on paper whatever the acquisitions that those above him want to make? Are you disagreeing that Suleiman is well-respected across the league? I don't get it. If you're disagreeing with all that, then that's fine, but I don't. 

I'm saying he hasn't done much to impress me.  If his job is making the numbers work for the salary cap then he has done a poor job.  I also am not concerned about his scouting comments as he isn't even good at his primary job.  It gets deflected with he is good at contracts, but doesn't do FINAL contracts, he has probably been overruled by Rhule in those bad contracts, well he is being prepped as GM, the league respects him.  Basically a long list of excuses and fluff without any real information in it. 

Who exactly is he well-respected by?  Random Huddlers?  It is a cap guy's fault that we are over the cap this year?  That we have one of the top amounts of dead cap space?  I understand you like the guy, I just don't understand why?  Can you tell me what he has done well that YOU like?  

[top dawg]

34 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I'm saying he hasn't done much to impress me.  If his job is making the numbers work for the salary cap then he has done a poor job.  I also am not concerned about his scouting comments as he isn't even good at his primary job.  It gets deflected with he is good at contracts, but doesn't do FINAL contracts, he has probably been overruled by Rhule in those bad contracts, well he is being prepped as GM, the league respects him.  Basically a long list of excuses and fluff without any real information in it. 

Who exactly is he well-respected by?  Random Huddlers?  It is a cap guy's fault that we are over the cap this year?  That we have one of the top amounts of dead cap space?  I understand you like the guy, I just don't understand why?  Can you tell me what he has done well that YOU like?  

I mean, he has been working in the league for 20+ years, and his name comes up every time there is a GM job comes up. I mean, all you really have to do is do a deep dive, but whatever...

Dude, his job is to do what the GM and ultimatley the owner wants, not what I like. I know that we've acquired a few players notwithstanding a tight cap. 

But, since you asked and act like you are versed in the cap, here is something that I like. I like that notwithstanding a regime change and everything that comes with it, that as far as the cap.is concerned next year, we'll be looking pretty good.

https://www.panthers.com/news/planning-for-future-salary-caps-a-multi-year-process

"And looking ahead, they're projected to have more than $80 million in cap space in 2024 and more than $145 million in 2025 (and those are conservative projections, which don't include the possibility of the cap rising with new television deals)."

Would you like to know what that means? It means that he has been putting us in a position to basically pay as you go which should be the ultimate goal of a cap guru from what I've been able to gather.

Edited March 8, 2023 by top dawg

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I mean, he has been working in the league for 20+ years, and his name comes up every time there is a GM job comes up. I mean, all you really have to do is do a deep dive, but whatever...

Dude, his job is to do what the GM and ultimatley the owner wants, not what I like. I know that we've acquired a few players notwithstanding a tight cap. 

But, since you asked and act like you are versed in the cap, here is something that I like. I like that notwithstanding a regime change and everything that comes with it, that as far as the cap.is concerned next year, we'll be looking pretty good.

https://www.panthers.com/news/planning-for-future-salary-caps-a-multi-year-process

"And looking ahead, they're projected to have more than $80 million in cap space in 2024 and more than $145 million in 2025 (and those are conservative projections, which don't include the possibility of the cap rising with new television deals)."

Would you like to know what that means? It means that he has been putting us in a position to basically pay as you go which should be the ultimate goal of a cap guru from what I've been able to gather.

Thanks for sharing a Panthers hype piece about a staff member.  Want me to share the one they posted when we hired Rhule?

So your entire view of him is how long he has worked in the league and what our future cap MIGHT be.  We have the second highest dead money hit in the league.  Do you know what that means?  It's money we can't spend now because of shitty contracts that we wanted to get rid of.  You are also bragging about signing players with a tight cap?  Why is our cap so tight every year?  If our cap is full or over then you would think we would have a very good roster full of great players, but (while there is talent) we all know that's not the case.  We don't even have a QB which is the post important and expensive position...

If he can keep the future cap space free and clear, I will be happy with that.  However free agency hasn't evens started and like I stated we are OVER the cap with a lot of holes to fill.  That typically means restructuring deals and signing backloaded contracts.  It will be interesting to see how 24's cap space looks once out 23 team is fully built.  If he can make it work while still keeping 24/25 wide open I will give him credit.  Believe me this is something I would love to be wrong on.  I am just not impressed with him and the past however many years he has been here.  It seems like most years he has been here we have been in bad positions with the cap, but hey maybe that will change in the future?