John Ellis on Stroud v Young

[gibran]

8 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

People keep saying Stroud had better weapons--in 2022, yes but 2021 Young had Metchie & Jameson Williams.  Two potential studs who just haven't been healthy in the NFL yet. Godspeed to Metchie coming back from cancer treatment this year.  

And the interesting thing is that his stats still held true when the studs left.  He managed very identical numbers 2021 to 2022, Y/A (8.9 to 8.8) and AY/Y (10.0 to 9.9).  Rating 167.5 to 163.2.  66.9% to 64.5% completion rates.  TDs and yards were down but it was off of 3 less games so it's really close.  

He also took plenty of big hits in the pocket and got right up.  His only injury in college was due to a weird angle he got tackled at that strained his shoulder. 

Stroud had more variance year to year which is indicative of the WRs on the team having a greater effect on him, but I mean, it was the best WR room in CFB so of course they'll have an effect. However after Wilson & Olave left, S-N was out all season, it was just MH Jr. & Egbuka.   Yeah, still better supporting cast, but 2021 was supremely better.  His completion rates were still higher than Bryce and what's even more impressive is that his avg y/a were around an entire yard higher than Young.  CJ is damn accurate.  

The short: They're both damn good

"just marvin harrison jr" you mean a future top 5 overall pick?

[frankw]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wouldn't hold DJ against him. He was a good receiver for us while we trotted out trash QB after trash QB and then proved to be a pivotal piece of the trade that got us the #1 overall pick. Now he's WR1 for another franchise.

Hell, he was right about DJ.

I'd say it's a little of both. But after how much he hyped him for the draft it did make me double take with making that video right after the trade downplaying DJ's significance. WR is still a very coveted position. Hopefully DJ does just enough to help the Bears but doesn't go on an absolute tear like some other former Panthers have done when we've cut ties. I know we're all hopped up on hopium right now but if it's me idgaf if we signed Thielen and Chark. I'm still taking a stud receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Edited March 27, 2023 by frankw

[gibran]

33 minutes ago, frankw said:

 

 

So are you a Bama fan or do you just follow them loosely? Please just cop to it at least the OSU homers here are upfront. It's funny I've yet to see one admitted Alabama fan in weeks but Bryce Young superfans are crawling out of the woodwork.

Bryce is in rarefied air as far as his build in the NFL. There's a reason fellas are clinging to Brees and Wilson. Later in his career Brees did nothing but statpad and Wilson has already gotten a head coach fired on his new team. The only other one you could mention is Kyler Murray and I do enjoy how you pro Young guys don't want any parts of that one now. Convenient.

Anywho the negatives for Stroud are how will he react to NFL pressure and how quickly will he process all that. Based on what I know of his character and him as a person I have no doubt he will be committed to soaking up everything the coaching staff throws at him. He has the pocket presence the accuracy and he can make the throws. If they think they can coach him up make the pick. Moving to Bryce Young if he's the pick there's some stipulations you need to get out of the way first. Foremost you need to keep investing big in your OL depth. Two you do not want him taking hits in the pocket or scrambling much. But that's his game isn't it? Well if you want him available through a 17 game season that's largely out the window. He's going to have to adjust his game to withstand the rigors of a full season. He played against some big boys in the SEC but this is a new level. And even in the SEC he got his shoulder banged up. You have to acknowledge these concerns and act accordingly.

stroud pocket presense is nothing to write home about and his scouting report is literally "interceptions arise when coming off first target" im supposed to believe that will go away when the nfl is even harder? you dont jump for a guy whos best game was a loss to georgia and scored 0tds in the 4th quarter and couldnt beat his rivals michigan either of his two "magical" years

[gibran]

30 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

 

pretty clear you didnt watch that game

it wasnt one game he lost to michigan twice and they whooped his ass both times

[gibran]

17 minutes ago, frankw said:

Charles Johnson is one of my all time favorite Panthers but who is asking him which QB to draft? With that logic let's ask Julius Peppers what he thinks.

Steve Smith is a hell of a player and our best receiver in history but who knows about his ability as an evaluator. He raved about DJ Moore we know that. Evaluation abilities undetermined at best.

jj watt and charles johnson both sack qbs for a living and dont see a problem with youngs size

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

I'd say it's a little of both. But after how much he hyped him for the draft it did make me double take with making that video right after the trade downplaying DJ's significance. WR is still a very coveted position. Hopefully DJ does just enough to help the Bears but doesn't go on an absolute tear like some other former Panthers have done when we've cut ties. I know we're all hopped up on hopium right now but if it's me idgaf if we signed Thielen and Chark. I'm still taking a stud receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I absolutely would not let a 33 year old stop gap or a injury prone guy on a one year prove it deal do much at all if anything to my draft plans.

[gibran]

15 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Young was the first Bama QB in a minute without a championship. Hell he even missed the entire playoffs last year. Squeaked by Texas… See how dumb this looks. It’s a team game and anyone blaming Stroud for the UGA loss has a definite agenda.

squeeked by texas? you mean beat texas? and he beat georgia his first year as a starter in the sec championship 41-24 and coulda scored more if he didnt have to kneel off like a winner

[gibran]

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wouldn't hold DJ against him. He was a good receiver for us while we trotted out trash QB after trash QB and then proved to be a pivotal piece of the trade that got us the #1 overall pick. Now he's WR1 for another franchise.

Hell, he was right about DJ.

he was right about cooper kupp too

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, gibran said:

jj watt and charles johnson both sack qbs for a living and dont see a problem with youngs size

Cool? They aren't going to be stepping between Bryce Young and massive NFL defenders barreling toward him.

[gibran]

17 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Young was the first Bama QB in a minute without a championship. Hell he even missed the entire playoffs last year. Squeaked by Texas… See how dumb this looks. It’s a team game and anyone blaming Stroud for the UGA loss has a definite agenda.

kid stepped off the gas scored 0 tds in the 4th and lost no agenda if he won id be team stroud but he didnt and he couldnt even come close to beating michigan either year, young smoked his opponents when he had a good team around him better stats than stroud all around that year too

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, gibran said:

he was right about cooper kupp too

Yep, I remember him raving about Kupp. Called him the best receiver in that draft class. Smitty was right. The NFL was wrong letting him fall to the 3rd.

He's raving about Josh Downs this year. 

[Bear Hands]

14 minutes ago, gibran said:

"just marvin harrison jr" you mean a future top 5 overall pick?

Yes. 

[AceBoogie]

I’ve been saying this. 

[gibran]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Cool? They aren't going to be stepping between Bryce Young and massive NFL defenders barreling toward him.

cj seperated his rotator cuff in college and will levis was injured too. bryce was never injured 24 straight starts in the sec and beat auburn with pure cold blooded instinct, never seen cj face adversity and prevail, im not being biased ive just truly never seen it