Matt moore very likely to start

[Carolinafan320]

I don't know if his injury is real or not, but I found it strange that I didn't see Delhomme on the sidelines at all during the Tampa Bay game. You'd think he'd be there, even if he had to wear a cast on his finger. Kind of strange that he wasn't, or maybe I just couldn't find him.

he was watching from the sideline(where he should be)

[Proudiddy]

"Delhomme has broken finger, can't grip ball. Moore has another week."

Yea like I said in Zod thread. Its really common sense. Jake not superman

tommy jone?

[rayzor]

tommy jone?

spred like teh leprosy to his finger. that tommy jone hurt reeal bad for long time.

[panthers55]

I get what you mean, but I think the something that he's seeing is an illusion (or more rightly, poor judgment).

This is a running trend with Fox. He always seems to believe that the more experienced guy is automatically better even when evidence shows otherwise, and there were already loads of examples even before this one.

While I hear what you are saying, why do you think that Fox has all of a sudden developed bad judgment. Or do you think it was there all along. I would expect after coaching for decades he must have reasons that he trusts veterans over rookies. He must have many examples where he tried rookies and they failed or he would make the change. He may be stubborn but he isn't stupid.

[panthers55]

you use extremes and apply them across the board. What "inside" knowledge or resume doI need to see basic fundamentals with my own eyes? Are you telling me people on this board can't evaluate based on games that Jake can't hit certain throws any longer or Godfrey can't tackle????

Like I said, yes...there are many things I can't know about Carolina without having access to things that only coaches/players/ and certain other indivduals have......I don't argue that.

It is lame that you think a fan can't watch a game and see basic fundamentals that are wrong.......

I am not an expert....there is plenty of stuff I don't know....however, I do know Godfrey has a problem tackling and in coverage....you don't need game film to see that....you also don't need game film to see Jake underthrows or overthrows his routine stuff to open players.....

but keep acting like you know everything and those on the board who form opinions that might go against Fox are clueless.....you obviously miss some very basic stuff about the game. Did you play? Please explain to me what I have said incorrectly about Jake or Godfrey? or Martin?

As usual you miss the point. We aren't talking about something as basic as tackling, even a moron can see a missed tackle. And from I see there are lots of missed tackles every game. Even guys like Beason miss their share.

What we are talking about is things like blown coverages, misreads and similar issues that may make one player look bad when it was caused by someone else. Look at last year for example. On several occasions last year Lucas was being blamed for being out of position when he was forced to cover 2 guys because the safety (usually Godfrey failed to come over and cover). This year on several occasions I have seen the opposing offense overload one side of the field. We don't adjust and Gamble has for example played a short zone leaving Godfrey to cover deep. The problem is that the slot receiver ran a skinny post and the linebacker broke off his coverage. Godfrey had to choose which deep man to cover leaving the other one open for the catch. He then tried to recover making him appear late when in fact he couldn't be in 2 places at once.

Has he been late other times, absolutely. but those are a few examples when if you don't know the coverage you would assume you know who blew the coverage based on who shows up in the picture late chasing the receiver but it was caused by someone else blowing their coverage or not adjusting.

As for when you have been wrong or right? I don't keep a scorecard or care. You seem the one who stalks me and makes comments all the time not the other way around.

And yeah I will listen to the experts and take their advice. And yeah I played, coached, and actually have prepared a playbook. How about you?

[panthers55]

Jaws has professed how much he likes Moore several times in the past.

One of the reasons I want to see Moore play. If Jaws likes him, there must be something there. I hope he is right.

[Mr. Scot]

While I hear what you are saying, why do you think that Fox has all of a sudden developed bad judgment. Or do you think it was there all along. I would expect after coaching for decades he must have reasons that he trusts veterans over rookies. He must have many examples where he tried rookies and they failed or he would make the change. He may be stubborn but he isn't stupid.

Not saying he's stupid, but he has made this particular mistake more than his fair share. Davis over Foster, Foster over Williams, Peete over Delhomme, Godfrey over Martin, and now Delhomme over Moore.

It's a mindset. And yeah, sometimes it's right, but not when you become a slave to it.

[panthers55]

Not saying he's stupid, but he has made this particular mistake more than his fair share. Davis over Foster, Foster over Williams, Peete over Delhomme, Godfrey over Martin, and now Delhomme over Moore.

It's a mindset. And yeah, sometimes it's right, but not when you become a slave to it.

Nor sure I agree with many of those examples at all. Davis over Foster made sense in 2005 given that over time Foster showed his ability and eventually had more carries and yards. Injury was also a factor that year. Still Davis was productive in the redzone scoring 12 Tds to Foster's 2. Same logic with Williams and Foster. Williams had lots of runs where he danced around and lost yards. He was also hurt a few games and had poor pass blocking. As he showed a better command, he got more time and subsequent success. But Williams wasn't nearly as good in 2006 or 2007 as he was in 2008 after taking Vinny's advice.

And Jake over Peete? Given Peete started 1 game for 1 half, hardly a pattern.

Even Godfrey over Martin was 1 game in which Godfrey played pretty well coming back.

So you are left with Jake over Moore as the only legitimate concern. Hardly the smoking gun evidence to make too much of a case for your point particularly over a 7 year period.

On the converse here are some rookies that started for Fox- Peppers, Gamble, Colbert, Godfrey, Otah, Beason off the top of my head. There are others like Robinson (returner), Marshall etc. who played a lot their rookie year but weren't listed as starters.

[CRA]

As usual you miss the point. We aren't talking about something as basic as tackling, even a moron can see a missed tackle. And from I see there are lots of missed tackles every game. Even guys like Beason miss their share.

What we are talking about is things like blown coverages, misreads and similar issues that may make one player look bad when it was caused by someone else. Look at last year for example. On several occasions last year Lucas was being blamed for being out of position when he was forced to cover 2 guys because the safety (usually Godfrey failed to come over and cover). This year on several occasions I have seen the opposing offense overload one side of the field. We don't adjust and Gamble has for example played a short zone leaving Godfrey to cover deep. The problem is that the slot receiver ran a skinny post and the linebacker broke off his coverage. Godfrey had to choose which deep man to cover leaving the other one open for the catch. He then tried to recover making him appear late when in fact he couldn't be in 2 places at once.

Has he been late other times, absolutely. but those are a few examples when if you don't know the coverage you would assume you know who blew the coverage based on who shows up in the picture late chasing the receiver but it was caused by someone else blowing their coverage or not adjusting.

As for when you have been wrong or right? I don't keep a scorecard or care. You seem the one who stalks me and makes comments all the time not the other way around.

And yeah I will listen to the experts and take their advice. And yeah I played, coached, and actually have prepared a playbook. How about you?

lame. I took a break from discussing things with you the last time you had to resort to claiming people "stalk" you simply b/c they don't agree with you. It is a message board and people have different opinions.....but since you obviously can't handle that and you like to claim it makes people online "stalkers" to disagree with your routine......I will just refrain from dealing w/ you.

Have a day.

[AceMan]

Actually, I think starting Godfrey BACK over Martin is the biggest mistake Fox has made as far as evaluating players. Even more so than sticking with Jake for 11 games this season...No one can deny that Martin is the better player at FS. You don't bench a guy that is hot (Had 3 INTs) for a guy that is struggling (Even though he had a good game against the Bucs). Fox just wants "his guys" to start no matter what. He has that right as a head coach, but it will definitely get him fired this offseason.

[SMACKDAB]

And yeah I played, coached, and actually have prepared a playbook. How about you?

I've built missile launchers, bomb racks, and rocket pods....but I'm not acting like I work for NASA either.

[PntherPryd]

Nor sure I agree with many of those examples at all. Davis over Foster made sense in 2005 especially given that Foster ended up with more carries and yards. Plus he did score 12 Tds to Foster's 2. Injuriy was a factor and like williams in 2007, Foster got more time and carries as he should he earned it. Same logic with Williams and Foster. Williams had lots of runs where he danced around and lost yards. He was also hurt a few games and had poor pass blocking. As he showed a better command, he got more time and subsequent success. But Williams wasn't nearly as good in 2006 or 2007 as he was in 2008 after taking Vinny's advice.

And Jake over Peete? Given Peete started 1 game for 1 half, hardly a pattern.

Even Godfrey over Martin was 1 game in which Godfrey played pretty well coming back.

So you are left with Jake over Moore as the only legitimate concern. Hardly the smoking gun evidence to make too much of a case for your point particularly over a 7 year period.

But how did he know Godfrey was going to play adequately? What had Martin done to lose a starting position? The point ( I think ) Mr. Scot was trying to make was that Fox has a long history of playing "not to lose" and that philosophy of "sometimes a punt is a good thing" comes through loud and clear in many personnel decisions and countless other decisions I'm sure.

Delhomme was the premier free agent signing the year we beat Dallas for his services. Possibly because there was a lack of other qb's as fa's but nonetheless he was to be a significant upgrade over Peete. But Peete got all the training camp snaps, all the choice preseason snaps and Delhomme was the forgotten man. We sucked as bad as everybody knew we were going to suck against Jax and finally Fox came to his senses. That is a recurring pattern. :banghead:

[panthers55]

But how did he know Godfrey was going to play adequately? What had Martin done to lose a starting position? The point ( I think ) Mr. Scot was trying to make was that Fox has a long history of playing "not to lose" and that philosophy of "sometimes a punt is a good thing" comes through loud and clear in many personnel decisions and countless other decisions I'm sure.

Delhomme was the premier free agent signing the year we beat Dallas for his services. Possibly because there was a lack of other qb's as fa's but nonetheless he was to be a significant upgrade over Peete. But Peete got all the training camp snaps, all the choice preseason snaps and Delhomme was the forgotten man. We sucked as bad as everybody knew we were going to suck against Jax and finally Fox came to his senses. That is a recurring pattern. :banghead:

Coaches see players every day in practice. They see if a guy is picking up the coverages or not. Lets say that they want to use a defensive scheme against Tampa that they used earlier in the year and they put in both guys in that scheme. Lets suppose that they think that Martin is struggling to get the concept and Godfrey is doing a better job. Wouldn't they put Godfrey in this week because they feel he is better getting the scheme they are installing this week. I don't know that happened but you can see the point that there could be a reason you put in Godfrey.

Delhomme had 2 choices, us and Dallas and chose us because we had a poorer starter and Jake figured he would get playing time. At the beginning of the season he was third on the depth chart after a good preseason and not looking good in camp or practice. But Fox thought he had something and put him in since he seemed to much better in games than he was in practice. Plus Delhomme wasn't a rookie so the comparison hardly holds anyway.

[panthers55]

I've built missile launchers, bomb racks, and rocket pods....but I'm not acting like I work for NASA either.

Another ignorant comparison. I readily admit I am not an expert and listen to those I think are. Go stalk someone else little man. I guess they didn't require an IQ test to work around bombs and missles so you could qualify.