Where would the Panthers be if they sat Bryce Young last season?

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I literally linked Frank saying it in his own words. 

Frank said he put Dalton in on 4th down because Dalton gave him more options than Bryce did in that scenario.   And Frank was being pressed on the why by Shenna. 

the very next week, Frank acknowledged he also altered the pass gameplan and gave Dalton deep balls that weren’t there for Bryce. 

I merely threw your own language back at you….when you declared my requoting of Frank as the most wildly dishonest post you have ever seen lol. Think you are being a tad sensitive there boss. 

You are still making a leap on what his was implying based on your personal beliefs. Reich mentions how many teams are starting to use backup QBs in that scenario and how he did it with Brissett at Indy to keep defenses confused. Dalton being able to do “more than one thing” was mentioned as more of a backup and situational player. He goes on to mention how since Dalton is a vet, he can come in for one play and execute it well without playing all game. I took it as he has multiple uses for Dalton vs the standard backup player. 
Also I believe Dalton installed his on plays and Reich let him because he is a vet. Honestly it all just shows how much Reich loves vets, wanted Carr, and was the wrong guy to develop a rookie QB. 
 

“I wouldn’t say that that was the case,” he replied when asked if Young hadn’t taken the same openings Dalton did on Sunday. “I probably called a few more. And there were one or two things that Andy specifically asked for, which I don’t wanna go into detail on. But there were a couple things that he specifically asked for.”

[CRA]

17 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

You are still making a leap on what his was implying based on your personal beliefs. Reich mentions how many teams are starting to use backup QBs in that scenario and how he did it with Brissett at Indy to keep defenses confused. Dalton being able to do “more than one thing” was mentioned as more of a backup and situational player. He goes on to mention how since Dalton is a vet, he can come in for one play and execute it well without playing all game. I took it as he has multiple uses for Dalton vs the standard backup player. 
Also I believe Dalton installed his on plays and Reich let him because he is a vet. Honestly it all just shows how much Reich loves vets, wanted Carr, and was the wrong guy to develop a rookie QB. 
 

“I wouldn’t say that that was the case,” he replied when asked if Young hadn’t taken the same openings Dalton did on Sunday. “I probably called a few more. And there were one or two things that Andy specifically asked for, which I don’t wanna go into detail on. But there were a couple things that he specifically asked for.”

Frank was point blanked asked about if they inserted Dalton to protect a smaller QB.  Frank said that was not the reason. 

When point blanked asked about well then why....he said it was strategic reasons.  One of which, Dalton could do MORE than one thing.  And he repeated that. 

I'm not making much of a leap there by saying Frank claimed Bryce limited his options and thus inserted a veteran Andy Dalton. 

Frank went on to mention the wildcat and other QBs that came off the field.  But that has nothing to do with Bryce/Dalton.   It was just rambling.  Same of saying Dalton could come on cold for a snap.  That's just rambling that isn't about the why. 

the common sense reasoning, is Bryce is a tiny QB that saw very limited work under C to that point.  It's something he was learning.  And an old Andy Dalton was likely indeed a better option and gave Frank more options in that moment.  Was that true the entire season? Doubtful.  But in week 2 of Bryce's rookie season?  Yeah, I'm sure Bryce limited Frank.  Or Frank at least believed that.   Which he basically conceded to in weeks 2 and 3. 

I mean, are we really going to argue that....the smallest starting QB in the last several decades, that pretty much just operated out of the shotgun, with non-ideal physical tools......wasn't going to limit a coach like Frank Reich early in a season?   Who everyone acknowledged going in only has worked with prototype QBs for what he does.  

[ForJimmy]

29 minutes ago, CRA said:

Frank was point blanked asked about if they inserted Dalton to protect a smaller.  Frank said that was not the reason. 

When point blanked asked about well then why....he said it was strategic reasons.  One of which, Dalton could do MORE than one thing.  And he repeated that. 

I'm not making much of a leap there by saying Frank claimed Bryce limited his options and thus inserted a veteran Andy Dalton. 

Frank went on to mention the wildcat and other QBs that came off the field.  But that has nothing to do with Bryce/Dalton.   It was just rambling.  Same of saying Dalton could come on cold for a snap.  That's just rambling that isn't about the why. 

the common sense reasoning, is Bryce is a tiny QB that saw very limited work under C to that point.  It's something he was learning.  And an old Andy Dalton was likely indeed a better option and gave Frank more options in that moment.  Was that true the entire season? Doubtful.  But in week 2 of Bryce's rookie season?  Yeah, I'm sure Bryce limited Frank.  Or Frank at least believed that.   Which he basically conceded to in weeks 2 and 3. 

 

I would be hesitant to judge an Reich Ramble quote last year as he contradicted himself on the regular.  The first thing he mentioned "point blank" was simply confusing the defense.  To me he was talking about other teams doing this like the Saints (I doubt he thought Brees was limited), and himself in the past (I doubt he thought Luck/Wentz were limited).  After mentioning what all Dalton can do he talks about how he can come in a execute one play well and not many QBs can do this (which is not even true).  I think he was just giving his vet praise and mentioning he wanted to use him more than just a backup AKA he can do multiple things.  

I will say your under center comment holds some weight though.  I originally took it as you implying Reich saying Young was a physically limited QB and Dalton can do things he can't physically do he benched him.  (even if he believed this it would be dumb to state to the press)  Under center and different formations for a rookie not comfortable with that on fourth down makes some sense.  In fact he put him in later in the year on 4th and short and did the fake handoff roll out for the first.  So maybe that was the case?  

[CRA]

14 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I would be hesitant to judge an Reich Ramble quote last year as he contradicted himself on the regular.  The first thing he mentioned "point blank" was simply confusing the defense.  To me he was talking about other teams doing this like the Saints (I doubt he thought Brees was limited), and himself in the past (I doubt he thought Luck/Wentz were limited).  After mentioning what all Dalton can do he talks about how he can come in a execute one play well and not many QBs can do this (which is not even true).  I think he was just giving his vet praise and mentioning he wanted to use him more than just a backup AKA he can do multiple things.  

I will say your under center comment holds some weight though.  I originally took it as you implying Reich saying Young was a physically limited QB and Dalton can do things he can't physically do he benched him.  (even if he believed this it would be dumb to state to the press)  Under center and different formations for a rookie not comfortable with that on fourth down makes some sense.  In fact he put him in later in the year on 4th and short and did the fake handoff roll out for the first.  So maybe that was the case?  

I think there was a steady theme early last year.....weeks 2 and 3.  Frank was unable to not voice it IMO.  Because it was too glaring to the public/media.  So you really are looking at that window of time and not just 1 statement.  I mean, Bryce was a rookie QB and on top of that didn't offer what Frank was accustomed to.  He was small and learning how to do things he never really did at Bama.  

I mean, even the lab built Frank QB would limit him early on in a season if a rookie most likely.  Bryce Young most definitely limited Frank early on.  And I think it's reasonable to assume given what Frank wanted to do....they were a poor match.  Bryce limited Frank and Frank didn't help Bryce.  Bad marriage.   Which has been my mantra since before last season kicked off. 

If you want Bryce to succeed you need to give him a coach that is all in on a Bryce O.  Bryce isn't going to plug into what some coach has been doing for the last decade.  It is what it is.  I don't think the Panthers ever viewed it that way.   And I think that's their fatal flaw on Bryce. 

[Johnstonny]

...the question should be ...were would the panthers be if they didn't give up all the talent and draft capital for the half pint pinto.

[PNW_PantherMan]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

If you want Bryce to succeed you need to give him a coach that is all in on a Bryce O.  Bryce isn't going to plug into what some coach has been doing for the last decade.  It is what it is.  I don't think the Panthers ever viewed it that way.   And I think that's their fatal flaw on Bryce. 

I mean I completely agree.  I’m just not sure that’s the best path forward long term.  Canales could flame out and be terrible.  Honestly that’s probably the most likely outcome lol.  But I honestly feel like building a roster and coaching staff for one player is only worth it if it has a good chance of paying off.  Bryce could still prove me wrong but I don’t think he’s worth building around specifically.

I still think we beefed up the guard position to help run the ball too.  Canales wants to run the ball between the tackles, and we were trash at it last season.  Sure we also need better pass protection, but Bryce made them look worse than they were last year.  There were plays where he didn’t have a chance to throw.  But there were also plenty of plays where everything was there and he just didn’t or couldn’t make the throw.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I mean I completely agree.  I’m just not sure that’s the best path forward long term.  Canales could flame out and be terrible.  Honestly that’s probably the most likely outcome lol.  But I honestly feel like building a roster and coaching staff for one player is only worth it if it has a good chance of paying off.  Bryce could still prove me wrong but I don’t think he’s worth building around specifically.

I still think we beefed up the guard position to help run the ball too.  Canales wants to run the ball between the tackles, and we were trash at it last season.  Sure we also need better pass protection, but Bryce made them look worse than they were last year.  There were plays where he didn’t have a chance to throw.  But there were also plenty of plays where everything was there and he just didn’t or couldn’t make the throw.

I’m not advocating they should at this point. Only that if you were going to draft Bryce…that was what  they needed to do.  And it was clearly before that season began it wasn’t how they viewed it.  And still don’t.  
 

[PNW_PantherMan]

25 minutes ago, CRA said:

I’m not advocating they should at this point. Only that if you were going to draft Bryce…that was what  they needed to do.  And it was clearly before that season began it wasn’t how they viewed it.  And still don’t.  
 

Agreed.  They didn’t build around him at all for last year’s team.  But based on what we’ve seen I don’t think it’s a good idea to do it now.