ed johnson

[AnalyzeThIs#28]

:sifone: I really dig that J. Stewie avatar Electricblue

[KillerKat]

I doubt Ed has anything left, and I'm not sure he had a ton to begin with. But Jon Henderson is a 6'7 330 lb'er who can play Nose or Under, and gets pressure while clogging the middle. He's not as good as Jenkins, but he's the same type of DT.

He also started mailing it in last year to the point where the coach called him out publicly. That's not what you want in a locker room without a lot of veteran leadership.

I think you might be over-generalizing just a bit. This site has some very good information about different defensive sets in general, and in it there's detailed explanations for the different DT responsibilities in each. That will give you some appreciation for why some DTs work in some defenses and not others. Or why Hayden sucked so bad when he took over for Kemo but not so much when he was backing up Lewis.

I don't see us going after anyone cut by the Jags, but Henderson is one of those rare types who can play multiple roles well.

I know the different types of DTs. Those that just clog the middle and those that are better for pass rush in 4-3, which is what I stated. In the 3-4, they're mostly used to clog the middle. But we aren't talking about 3-4 NTs in this thread. Of course 4-3 DTs mostly will struggle in 3-4, thats common knowledge. However a 3-4 NT can be one of the DTs used to clog the middle in a 4-3 scheme. Again, not much a DT has to adjust to. A 4-3 DT has little or nothing to adjust to in another team's 4-3.

[rmoneyg35]

I thought Ed Johnson was a beast for the colts? John Henderson is huge and I would love to see us sign him. The guys size could really help us because the opposing offensive line would have to use multiple blockers on him thus allowing our ends to go in unblocked. His 6'7 frame would also help him benifit against the pass because he could jump up and block the passes. Each year he has had quite a few passes defended actually around the same amount of Peppers and we all know how he could block a pass.

[carolina-chuck]

all i'm saying is that, man! john henderson would surely make a huge difference on our defense with his size and experience. that will make Beason do what he does best. signing a guy like henderson will make us a step better and tougher team in the nfc south. pretty much we're a DT away from making the playoffs if you really think about it.

[ElectricBlue]

:sifone: I really dig that J. Stewie avatar Electricblue

Found this artist online that does really cool football avatars.

http://www.electrobertjones.com/content.php?sec=proj&dir=sas

Some are quite funny, actually.

[Cyberjag]

How does Jon Henderson not fit our scheme? A DT is a a DT. If they have to adjust, it's very minimal. You're on the line, guy is in front of you. Get through that guy or clog the middle. The end.

I know the different types of DTs. Those that just clog the middle and those that are better for pass rush in 4-3, which is what I stated. In the 3-4, they're mostly used to clog the middle. But we aren't talking about 3-4 NTs in this thread. Of course 4-3 DTs mostly will struggle in 3-4, thats common knowledge. However a 3-4 NT can be one of the DTs used to clog the middle in a 4-3 scheme. Again, not much a DT has to adjust to. A 4-3 DT has little or nothing to adjust to in another team's 4-3.

I'm afraid I'm just not quick enough on the uptake to understand all the nuance in your first post. I don't see how DTs are interchangeable, unless you're running a base 4-3 with a Miami front. And even then, a DT from a different 4-3 system may not fit. For instance, I don't see Kemo working out very well in a penetrating defensive front, but as a nose tackle in a 4-3 which employs an undertackle he's pretty effective. And most UTs don't work out well as NTs, they just don't have the body type.

And in reading your post I have to wonder about the idea of multiple DTs clogging the middle ("a 3-4 NT can be one of the DTs used to clog the middle in a 4-3 scheme"). Are you suggesting that people use both DTs to clog the middle? I don't know of a 4-3 scheme where both DTs are primarily there to clog the middle, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone's tried it. Maybe you can tell us about one that plays that way, since you're an expert on defense.

And I don't think that 4-3 DTs necessarily struggle in a 3-4. Those who can play NT do quite well--look at Jenkins in NY and keep your eye on Kemo in Washington this season. There are also a host of UTs who do ok as DEs in the 3-4. Given that they require the same skill set that should be no surprise.

But I digress. I still think that Henderson isn't a fit here, but only because of the locker room issues. We just don't have the leadership on defense needed to snap an old-timer into line. And I think Ed Johnson is destined for the scrap heap--our DTs on day one will be Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Hayden.

Just my two cents.

[scpanther22]

I'm afraid I'm just not quick enough on the uptake to understand all the nuance in your first post. I don't see how DTs are interchangeable, unless you're running a base 4-3 with a Miami front. And even then, a DT from a different 4-3 system may not fit. For instance, I don't see Kemo working out very well in a penetrating defensive front, but as a nose tackle in a 4-3 which employs an undertackle he's pretty effective. And most UTs don't work out well as NTs, they just don't have the body type.

And in reading your post I have to wonder about the idea of multiple DTs clogging the middle ("a 3-4 NT can be one of the DTs used to clog the middle in a 4-3 scheme"). Are you suggesting that people use both DTs to clog the middle? I don't know of a 4-3 scheme where both DTs are primarily there to clog the middle, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone's tried it. Maybe you can tell us about one that plays that way, since you're an expert on defense.

And I don't think that 4-3 DTs necessarily struggle in a 3-4. Those who can play NT do quite well--look at Jenkins in NY and keep your eye on Kemo in Washington this season. There are also a host of UTs who do ok as DEs in the 3-4. Given that they require the same skill set that should be no surprise.

But I digress. I still think that Henderson isn't a fit here, but only because of the locker room issues. We just don't have the leadership on defense needed to snap an old-timer into line. And I think Ed Johnson is destined for the scrap heap--our DTs on day one will be Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Hayden.

Just my two cents.

Your post was good untill you said Hayden was making the final roster..

[mick eye]

I am part of the rare and small group of folks that think Corvey Irvin, Tank Tyler and maybe a sleeper like Andre Neblett will fill in just fine. From the film it looks like Ed Johnson is out of shape. BUT coming into OTA's and off being cut that is not that uncommon.

[mick eye]

That being said i would look at DT in the first next year.

[Cyberjag]

Your post was good untill you said Hayden was making the final roster..

Hayden will make it if they don't bring in anyone else.

[CatMan72]

How does Jon Henderson not fit our scheme? A DT is a a DT. If they have to adjust, it's very minimal. You're on the line, guy is in front of you. Get through that guy or clog the middle. The end.

Meeks likes speed.

[Woodie]

Hayden will make it if they don't bring in anyone else.

I wouldn't be at all surprised by this. I think Hayden was not as bad as most think, especially for a guy that lost weight to get quicker only to be thrust into a traditional NT position. So, I think he is getting a bit unfairly judged for having to play the Kemo role with 50-60 fewer pounds on his frame. Now, I don't think Hayden is starter material, but I do think he can be serviceable in a rotational role at UT.

[KillerKat]

I'm afraid I'm just not quick enough on the uptake to understand all the nuance in your first post. I don't see how DTs are interchangeable, unless you're running a base 4-3 with a Miami front. And even then, a DT from a different 4-3 system may not fit. For instance, I don't see Kemo working out very well in a penetrating defensive front, but as a nose tackle in a 4-3 which employs an undertackle he's pretty effective. And most UTs don't work out well as NTs, they just don't have the body type.

And in reading your post I have to wonder about the idea of multiple DTs clogging the middle ("a 3-4 NT can be one of the DTs used to clog the middle in a 4-3 scheme"). Are you suggesting that people use both DTs to clog the middle? I don't know of a 4-3 scheme where both DTs are primarily there to clog the middle, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone's tried it. Maybe you can tell us about one that plays that way, since you're an expert on defense.

And I don't think that 4-3 DTs necessarily struggle in a 3-4. Those who can play NT do quite well--look at Jenkins in NY and keep your eye on Kemo in Washington this season. There are also a host of UTs who do ok as DEs in the 3-4. Given that they require the same skill set that should be no surprise.

But I digress. I still think that Henderson isn't a fit here, but only because of the locker room issues. We just don't have the leadership on defense needed to snap an old-timer into line. And I think Ed Johnson is destined for the scrap heap--our DTs on day one will be Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Hayden.

Just my two cents.

I specifically stated that in a 4-3 one DT can be used to clog the middle and one used to pass rush. Kemo was one that clogged the middle, which is what you just mentioned. I specially stated the differences yet you keep blabbering on. And I stated MOST of the time 4-3 DTs struggle as a 3-4 DT (I include the DT part cause I thought that was understood since we were talking about DTs). Jenkins is a exception to the rule.

[KillerKat]

I know the different types of DTs. Those that just clog the middle and those that are better for pass rush in 4-3, which is what I stated. In the 3-4, they're mostly used to clog the middle. But we aren't talking about 3-4 NTs in this thread. Of course 4-3 DTs mostly will struggle in 3-4, thats common knowledge. However a 3-4 NT can be one of the DTs used to clog the middle in a 4-3 scheme. Again, not much a DT has to adjust to. A 4-3 DT has little or nothing to adjust to in another team's 4-3.

I mean, what part of the bolded above do you not understand? Over 3/4 of your post I already stated.