WTF Happened To John Fox?

[Matt Foley]

No one will ever want to admit this, but Seifert handed Fox the keys to a pretty nice car. It had never been driven outside the shop, but Seifert left him the Smitty/Morgan/Jenkins class, the picks that became the Peppers/Foster/Witherspoon class, and a lot of vets with heart that Fox leaned on to get through his first few seasons. Hoover, Minter, Rucker, Buckner, Moose, Walls, etc.

[panthers55]

No one will ever want to admit this, but Seifert handed Fox the keys to a pretty nice car. It had never been driven outside the shop, but Seifert left him the Smitty/Morgan/Jenkins class, the picks that became the Peppers/Foster/Witherspoon class, and a lot of vets with heart that Fox leaned on to get through his first few seasons. Hoover, Minter, Rucker, Buckner, Moose, Walls, etc.

If Fox isn't retained next year the same could be said for whoever comes in as the new coach. Fox and Hurney have done alot to build this team and stock it with a bunch of fast exciting players.

As for Fox owing his success to Seifert, I am not so sure that is true. Sure we had some good guys from 2001 but wasn't Fox and Hurney the guys who drafted the 2002 class not Seifert? Plus we got a bunch of guys in free agency like Davis, Delhomme, and Proehl before the 2003 season which built the offense.

The defense really came together under Del Rio. We had some good players in Morgan, Minter, Bucker, and Jenkins from 2001 and before but that hardly makes for a great team in and of itself.

Even Smith was largely a returner under Seifert, it wasn't until Fox came here and moved him to receiver that he flourished.

Again not saying that we didn't have some players, but I would hardly credit Seifert with contributing a bunch to our success. Seems to me that Fox would be leaving the cupboards better stocked than they were when he got here if our new draft picks work out as hoped.

[Matt Foley]

If Fox isn't retained next year the same could be said for whoever comes in as the new coach. Fox and Hurney have done alot to build this team and stock it with a bunch of fast exciting players.

As for Fox owing his success to Seifert, I am not so sure that is true. Sure we had some good guys from 2001 but wasn't Fox and Hurney the guys who drafted the 2002 class not Seifert? Plus we got a bunch of guys in free agency like Davis, Delhomme, and Proehl before the 2003 season which built the offense.

The defense really came together under Del Rio. We had some good players in Morgan, Minter, Bucker, and Jenkins from 2001 and before but that hardly makes for a great team in and of itself.

Even Smith was largely a returner under Seifert, it wasn't until Fox came here and moved him to receiver that he flourished.

Again not saying that we didn't have some players, but I would hardly credit Seifert with contributing a bunch to our success. Seems to me that Fox would be leaving the cupboards better stocked than they were when he got here if our new draft picks work out as hoped.

I didn't mean to suggest Seifert deserved credit for anything other than leaving a team much better than its 1-15 record would indicate. That 1-15 team lost a ton of close games.

[panthers55]

I didn't mean to suggest Seifert deserved credit for anything other than leaving a team much better than its 1-15 record would indicate. That 1-15 team lost a ton of close games.

Seifert made a huge mistake is getting rid of Beuerlein. If he had been here instead of Weinke, no doubt we would have won more games. Fox did what he could bringing in Peete in 2002 but it wasn't until we got Jake that we turned the offense around. The lack of a quarterback was what hurt Seifert the most.

[RedMage138]

I forgot how much I loved that defense.

[Baschski]

Nothing "happened" to Fox. He just had everything in place that year that he needed to make a run. Good run defense, a front four that can create pressure on its own, great running game to set up the play-action pass, and good special teams.

[N1kkadeemuz]

Peppers Buckner Jenkins Rucker

Thats what happened to Fox.

#1 answer is now on the board

[beastson]

It seems to me from a few comments that Fox was never that good of a coach.... no

Yes he was, a very good coach. You can have all the talent you want, that doesn't guarantee a Superbowl spot and victory. Look at the Cowboys. We went there, lost half the pieces to go there again the next year, still almost made it to the playoffs, then we went BACK to the NFC championship the year after that. All under Fox

That Fox, and the one we have now cannot be compared. The fire, the passion, the motivation... now we stuck with It Is What It Is

[Jbro]

Team learned how to gameplan against him.

[panthers55]

It seems to me from a few comments that Fox was never that good of a coach.... no

Yes he was, a very good coach. You can have all the talent you want, that doesn't guarantee a Superbowl spot and victory. Look at the Cowboys. We went there, lost half the pieces to go there again the next year, still almost made it to the playoffs, then we went BACK to the NFC championship the year after that. All under Fox

That Fox, and the one we have now cannot be compared. The fire, the passion, the motivation... now we stuck with It Is What It Is

I don't know that is true. As late as 2008 we were poised to make a deep run in the playoffs. If Delhomme didn't fall apart in the playoffs we would likely have made the NFC Championship game. Coaches do lose fire over time but his staff this year is a pretty fiery group who actually have more contact with the players than he does. Really there are a lot of head coaches who aren't fiery guys who have players that compete hard. Look at Dungy in Indy, for example, when he was there.

[Davidson Deac II]

Fwiw, I remember fans and sportswriters back in 04/05/06 talking about how talented we were. The truth is that during those years, we were not all that talented, at least on offense. We had a solid offensive line, an average QB, running backs were decent at best. The tight ends were used for blocking more than receiving, and we had one superstar receiver and the rest of them aren't worth mentioning. To be a talented team, you have to have talent on both sides of the ball. We lost a lot of talent after 03, and didn't begin replacing it until 07.

We can blame Fox for taking so long to replace that talent, but I don't think we can blame him for failing to get the players on the field to produce. He probably got as much out of them as any coach in the league could.

[Zcustom]

Watching that game reminded me of why we run the draw on third and long so much, Foster converted that 3rd and 14 in the 4th quarter that kept the game in the Panthers hands

[PantherDude]

Watching this game helped me remember how good Delhomme used to be.

And the year after that when we has the injury bug with 14 players on IR. If it wasn't for the damn surgery, things would be different now. *sigh*

LOL after that game the lowly rams haven't been the same since.

Neither did us, since we haven't been back to the Superbowl yet.

[panthers55]

Fwiw, I remember fans and sportswriters back in 04/05/06 talking about how talented we were. The truth is that during those years, we were not all that talented, at least on offense. We had a solid offensive line, an average QB, running backs were decent at best. The tight ends were used for blocking more than receiving, and we had one superstar receiver and the rest of them aren't worth mentioning. To be a talented team, you have to have talent on both sides of the ball. We lost a lot of talent after 03, and didn't begin replacing it until 07.

We can blame Fox for taking so long to replace that talent, but I don't think we can blame him for failing to get the players on the field to produce. He probably got as much out of them as any coach in the league could.

All good points.

Fox does have a number of flaws, some of them severe enough that I won't cry if we replace him after this year. There are some assistant coaches on this squad who could take over and do a great job. On the other hand I won't be angry if he is retained (pending the outcome of this year of course) especially if he can do alot with our group in the fall. It wouldn't make much sense to get rid of him if he can take this group to the playoffs this year. And if he can't maybe we see if we can find someone who is a little hungrier.

I have high hopes for Fox this year. His best coaching job ever was in 2004. If he can instill the same mentality in this group from the beginning and get players to step up like Goings did (especially at wide receiver and defensive end) we have a chance to be good. The good news is that Fox has never had a team roll over and play dead in his tenure. They play hard and compete. One of the top attributes for a coach. Instills a desire to compete and win.