The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[PantherFanForLife]

Ok first I just want to say, I'm ALL FOR CLAUSEN REMAINING THE STARTER for at least a few more games. You cannot judge him from 3 games alone. But I am so sick of so many people not knowing what the heck they are talking about when it comes to Moore, perfectly ok with judging him by the first 2 games of this season, but not the rest of his career here as a starter, and only looking at bullshit career stats that include him coming in for either 3 minutes, or a quarter, or replacing David Carr.....all the while making bullshit excuses for Clausen, especially for some mistakes that clearly go well beyond the whole "rookie" excuse.

________________________________________________________________________________

__________________Passing_____MATT MOORE_(Career Stats as Starter)_____Rushing___ _____

|game|opp |result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|_15_|SEA |W 13-10| 19_ | 27 | 208 | 70.4_|7.70| 54 |_0 |_0| 0.0_ |_92.8 |-| 2_ | _5_ | 2.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_16_|DAL |L _20-13| 15_ | 28 | 182 | 53.6_|6.50| 57 |_1 |_1 | 5.0_ |_70.8 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_17_| TB_|W 31-23| 15_ | 24 | 174 | 62.5_|7.25| 46 |_2 |_1 | 1.0_ |_94.8 |-| 1_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_13_| TB_|W 16-6_| 14_ | 20 | 161 | 70.0_|8.05| 66 |_0 |_1 | 1.0_ |_73.1 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|_14_| NE_|L _20-10| 15_ | 30 | 197 | 50.0_|6.57| 44 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_82.2 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_15_|MIN |W 26-7_| 21_ | 33 | 299 | 63.6_|9.06| 55 |_3 |_0 | 2.0_ |123.2 |-| 5_ | -2_ | -0.4| _1 | 0_|

|_16_|NYG|W_41-9_| 15_ | 20 | 171 | 75.0_|8.55| 27 |_3 |_0 | 1.0_ |139.8 |-| 4_ | _2_ | 0.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_17_| NO |W 23-10| 14_ | 23 | 162 | 60.9_|7.04| 30 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_96.6 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|__1_|NYG|L_ 31-18| 14_ | 33 | 182 | 42.4_|5.52| 27 |_1 |_3 | 4.0_ |_32.6 |-| 2_ | 15_ | 7.5 | _8 | 0_|

|__2_| TB |L_ 20-7_| _6_ | 16 | 125 | 37.5_|7.81| 37 |_1 |_1 | 4.0_ |_60.7 |-| 1_ | _2_ | 2.0 | _2 | 0_|

_________________________________Totals___________________________________________

|_10_|ALL |__ 6-4_ | 148 |254|2115 | 58.3_|8.32| 66 |13 | 7 |2.2avg|_86.7 |-| 17 | 20_ | 1.2 | _8 | 0_|

__________________________________Totals_(Pre - 2010)_______________________________

|__8_|ALL |__ 6-2_ | 128 |205|1808 | 62.4_|8.81| 66 |11 | 3 |1.8avg|_96.7 |-| 14 | _3_ | 0.2 | _8 | 0_|

_____________________________________________________________________________

___________________Passing__ __JIMMY CLAUSEN_(Career Stats as Starter)____Rushing________

|game|opp |result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|__3_| CIN |L _20-7 | 16_ | 33 | 188 | 48.5_|5.70| 44 |_0 |_1 | 1.0_ |_53.6 |-| 6_ | 10_ | 1.7 | _5 | 0_|

|__4_|_NO |L _16-14| 11_ | 21 | 146 | 52.4_|6.95| 55 |_1 |_0 | 3.0_ |_90.6 |-| 2_ | 11_ | 5.5 | _6 | 0_|

|__5_| CHI |L _23-6 | _9_ | 22 | _61 | 40.9_|2.77| 16 |_0 |_1 | 5.0_ |_29.7 |-| 2_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

_________________________________Totals__________________________________________

|__3_|ALL |__ 0-3_ | _36 |_76|_495 | 47.4_|6.51| 55 |_1 | 2 |3.0avg|_ 58.0 |-| 10 | 21_ | 2.1 | _6 | 0_|

______________________________________________________________________________

_________________Passing_________Totals: Moore vs Clausen_________Rushing______________

|game|opp|result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|_10_|ALL_ |__ 6-4_ | 148 |254|2115| 58.3_|8.32| 66 |13 | 7 |2.2avg|_86.7 |-| 17 | 20_| 1.2 | _8 | 0_|

|__3_|ALL_ |__ 0-3_ | _36 |_76|_495| 47.4_|6.51| 55 |_1 | 2 |3.0avg|_58.0 |-| 10 | 21_| 2.1 | _6 | 0_|

So here are the facts.

-Matt has only played a total of 10 games as a starter, 10 complete games, and only 10 games you can really judge him by.

-In those 10 games he:

1. Went 6-4(including the 2 losses from this year, else he is 6-2!).

2. Had a 3 game winning streak.

3. Has had back to back games throwing 3 touchdowns and no pics with a QB rating of over 120.

4. He threw 13 touchdowns and 7 pics. More than half his pics came from the 2 games this year.

5. He had a 4 game streak of throwing 0 pics.

8. His second game as a rookie in 07 was tough and much like Jimmy Sunday got little help from the O-line. He was sacked 5 times. But he still put up a better completion %, better rating, and scored a touchdown.

9. He has consistently completed over 50% of his passes and thrown for 300 yards before.

10. The two worst games of his career as a starter were the 2 games he played this year.

If you actually look at Moore stats overall as a starter, he's actually pretty freaking decent. He's no Manning, but he's a winner. If you give him the benefit of the doubt of just having 2 bad opening games with this circus of a team, then it gets even better when you take them out of the equation. But I know....no one ever considers Matt could have had a couple of bad games. Everyone is perfectly fine with judging him by the 2 worst games of his career as a starter.

Whatever.

If Clausen stinks it up for the next 3-4 games, no reason Matt should not get a chance to try and finish HIS season. Jimmy would then go back on the bench and earn the job by proving over and over in practice he is the better man, like he should have in the first place. If he really is that good, then he should have nothing to worry about.

Having said that, please STFU with this talk about how attrocious Matt is. Again I am all for consistency and believe Jimmy should stay as a starter. But honestly, tell me again why Matt shouldn't come back looking at his record if Clausen doesn't improve? What's there to justify in that one?

[unicar15]

Who cares about Moore's wins in previous years? You have to compare the QBs with the team THIS YEAR and Moore came in for less than a quarter and threw 2 picks. THAT is why he is no longer playing...because he is essentially Jake Delhomme Lite.

You cannot bench Clausen (a rookie) after losing his first 3 games when:

A) He really only had one bad game (Bears)

That bad game was more a product of his lack of protection and lack of WRs than anything else.

[PantherFanForLife]

Who cares about Moore's wins in previous years? You have to compare the QBs with the team THIS YEAR and Moore came in for less than a quarter and threw 2 picks. THAT is why he is no longer playing...because he is essentially Jake Delhomme Lite.

You cannot bench Clausen (a rookie) after losing his first 3 games when:

A) He really only had one bad game (Bears)

That bad game was more a product of his lack of protection and lack of WRs than anything else.

You are an idiot. Yes who cares about the previous 8 FULL games he played with the franchise, let's care about the last 3 meaningless minutes in Sunday's game.

Yeah, that's how you evaluate a QB.

[Guild]

Moore came in for less than a quarter and threw 2 picks

Other than your quick dismissal of Moore and then your Clausen apologist attitude this statement alone shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Cyberjag]

Why not compare their college records as well?

Moore is in his fourth year, and this year was the first in which he didn't start the season buried on the depth chart. And this year we finally saw what the coaches were afraid of and why he had been buried on the depth chart.

Old games are old news. Moore did well when he had a defense that surrendered less than 10 points a game and a running game that churned out 150 yards on the ground. Take those away and he looks unprepared and ineffective. Stats aside, at least Clausen looks like he wants to take command, and he looks like he's willing to get in someone's face and yell. And that's how it looks, none of us really know how it is.

But the bottom line is that Moore is horribly ineffective without a great defense and running game. Clausen isn't particularly effective either, but at least he's got room to improve. Moore already looks like he's peaked as a player, and it was nice but not enough.

So frankly, go with the guy who has potential. When it's all you've got, you may as well stick with it.

[CLTPanther]

Yay another Clausen vs Moore thread. Moore is just not a good QB, it's time to get over it.

[PantherFanForLife]

Why not compare their college records as well?

Moore is in his fourth year, and this year was the first in which he didn't start the season buried on the depth chart. And this year we finally saw what the coaches were afraid of and why he had been buried on the depth chart.

Old games are old news. Moore did well when he had a defense that surrendered less than 10 points a game and a running game that churned out 150 yards on the ground. Take those away and he looks unprepared and ineffective. Stats aside, at least Clausen looks like he wants to take command, and he looks like he's willing to get in someone's face and yell. And that's how it looks, none of us really know how it is.

But the bottom line is that Moore is horribly ineffective without a great defense and running game. Clausen isn't particularly effective either, but at least he's got room to improve. Moore already looks like he's peaked as a player, and it was nice but not enough.

So frankly, go with the guy who has potential. When it's all you've got, you may as well stick with it.

Your entire post is complete bullshit. College career? That's what Sunday was. A college kid playing in the NFL.

The biggest difference between Moore and Clausen is that Moore is an NFL STARTER with plenty of room to improve just like Clausen, while Clausen is a COLLEGE STARTER trying to improve to become an NFL STARTER.

I'd rather have an average NFL QB than a great college QB any day of the week. Which is exactly what these two are.

Oh and Sunday, we finally saw what I and Jimmy was afraid of:

Chicago Bears defensive end Israel Idonije said he didn't talk any trash to Carolina Panthers quarterback Jimmy Clausen on Sunday as he posted three of the Bears' five sacks, because it sounded like Idonije almost felt sorry for the former Notre Dame star.

"He's a young guy, and if you looked in his eyes, he had a whole lot going on," Idonije said Monday on "The Afternoon Saloon" on ESPN 1000. "He was probably talking to himself, I'm sure."

Clausen was 9-of-22 and had a passer rating of 29.7 in a 23-6 loss.

"[At one point] he looked like he was terrorized," Idonije said. "But the guy's a young guy, he's going to be a great player in this league for many years to come. He's just having a tough rookie season, and he's going to bounce back."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/news/story?id=5674884

No, that's how it looks. He sounds like a true nightmare to our opponents. A fearless leader no doubt.

[Cyberjag]

Your entire post is complete bullshit. College career? That's what Sunday was. A college kid playing in the NFL.

The biggest difference between Moore and Clausen is that Moore is an NFL STARTER with plenty of room to improve just like Clausen, while Clausen is a COLLEGE STARTER trying to improve to become an NFL STARTER.

I'll agree--he's an NFL starter. He's also a terrible one, unless the rest of the team carries him. Find a game where he led a comeback or performed well when the rest of his team didn't, and get back to me.

I'd rather have an average NFL QB than a great college QB any day of the week. Which is exactly what these two are.

And more great college QBs become great NFL QBs, right? Who starts out perfect in your world? Moore was average in college, undrafted, and given years to develop. As soon as he got the keys for real he crapped the bed. And you have no response at all other than to call it bullshit.

Look at his wins again. All he had to do was hand the ball off for three straight quarters and not turn it over. As soon as the rules changed, he folded. I don't like it, you don't like it, the coaches don't like it, but there it is. Had he actually followed through on the promise he showed last year we would probably be sitting at 3-2 right now easily and talking playoffs.

But he disappointed, and he did so at the point in his career where he should be showing everyone what he's learned. He's had time to develop, solid experience, and the support of his team. And he failed, horribly.

So start the rookie. He's going to be scared at times. He's going to freak out at the speed of the game, and he's going to be hit harder than he ever thought he would. But he's also going to learn that he can play at that speed, and that he can get up, and that he can win in this league. And when that happens, he'll start improving and we can see the type of QB we drafted.

With Moore, we already know what we have. And that's why Clausen is starting.

[CRA]

I'll agree--he's an NFL starter. He's also a terrible one, unless the rest of the team carries him. Find a game where he led a comeback or performed well when the rest of his team didn't, and get back to me.

And more great college QBs become great NFL QBs, right? Who starts out perfect in your world? Moore was average in college, undrafted, and given years to develop. As soon as he got the keys for real he crapped the bed. And you have no response at all other than to call it bullshit.

Look at his wins again. All he had to do was hand the ball off for three straight quarters and not turn it over. As soon as the rules changed, he folded. I don't like it, you don't like it, the coaches don't like it, but there it is. Had he actually followed through on the promise he showed last year we would probably be sitting at 3-2 right now easily and talking playoffs.

But he disappointed, and he did so at the point in his career where he should be showing everyone what he's learned. He's had time to develop, solid experience, and the support of his team. And he failed, horribly.

So start the rookie. He's going to be scared at times. He's going to freak out at the speed of the game, and he's going to be hit harder than he ever thought he would. But he's also going to learn that he can play at that speed, and that he can get up, and that he can win in this league. And when that happens, he'll start improving and we can see the type of QB we drafted.

With Moore, we already know what we have. And that's why Clausen is starting.

again, funny how people choose to define Moore as an NFL QB off of 5 quarters of play and completely ignore the other 34 quarters of play.

[Cyberjag]

Let's bold a different section of your post:

Chicago Bears defensive end Israel Idonije said he didn't talk any trash to Carolina Panthers quarterback Jimmy Clausen on Sunday as he posted three of the Bears' five sacks, because it sounded like Idonije almost felt sorry for the former Notre Dame star.

"He's a young guy, and if you looked in his eyes, he had a whole lot going on," Idonije said Monday on "The Afternoon Saloon" on ESPN 1000. "He was probably talking to himself, I'm sure."

Clausen was 9-of-22 and had a passer rating of 29.7 in a 23-6 loss.

"[At one point] he looked like he was terrorized," Idonije said. "But the guy's a young guy, he's going to be a great player in this league for many years to come. He's just having a tough rookie season, and he's going to bounce back."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nh...ory?id=5674884

Sure he was scared at times, what NFL QB hasn't been? He's a rookie, and can still get better. Do you want that sort of behavior from someone who's seen it for three years already instead?

[Cyberjag]

again, funny how people choose to define Moore as an NFL QB off of 5 quarters of play and completely ignore the other 34 quarters of play.

I'm not ignoring it at all. I'm pointing out that when the game is on his back, he folds. If our defense was playing like it did late last season, and we were running the ball like we did late last season, then we would be fine with a QB of Moore's caliber. But neither is the case, and he's been exposed. Think I like it?

[AceMan]

Put Moore back in! We're gonna get Andrew Luck anyway

[Cyberjag]

I guess that based on the OPs reaction, the post title should have been "I'm not interested in what you have to say, Moore should start and here's why".

[CRA]

I'm not ignoring it at all. I'm pointing out that when the game is on his back, he folds. If our defense was playing like it did late last season, and we were running the ball like we did late last season, then we would be fine with a QB of Moore's caliber. But neither is the case, and he's been exposed. Think I like it?

but again, not sure 5 quarters is enough to know he has been exposed and is that guy. Moore is a young QB.....who got off to a very good start in this league. Moore was only given 1 game this year....that ain't a shot. Game 2 was still winnable and there is no excuse for what occured w/ Moore's benching.

you don't do what we did w/ Moore. Bottom line. Maybe he is garbage or maybe he isn't......people wanting one game to define that young of a QB are not thinking clearly.