When does a new coach stick with the old QB

[Cyberjag]

usually when a coach gets fired it's because he's not winning games. You need a good QB to win games. You don't find many coaches who get fired despite having a top end qb. It's kind of a chicken-egg argument. Did the QB suck because of the coach or did the coach suck because of the QB?

you could probably correlate a number of positional replacements to coaching turnovers.

Denny Green gave Rich Gannon the boot because he didn't fit his offensive system. Gannon went on to have a pretty good career.

[CRA]

There extenuating circumstances to almost all of those situations that I don't feel like typing on my phone. Needless to say, none of those guys had a qb with the potential that Jimmy has.

actually, we talked about in in the Clausen playing in the 49er thread. A lot of those teams did have young QBs with potential.....some very similar to where Carolina will be in some cases. B/c it is Carolina people are trying to make Jimmy out to have more potential than other guys.

[scpanther22]

I think one thing we have to keep in mind.

That a new coach most of the times means new GM for most teams.

This situation is different because we will have the same GM that drafted Clausen.

[rayzor]

it doesn't happen too often but most teams with coaching changes are usually in a mess all over the place and don't really have a QB entrenched in the job (not that we do necessarily). only ones i can think of this decade is seattle/hasslebeck (going from holmgren to mora to carroll), caldwell with peyton, whisenhunt with warner (kind of), tomlin with benny, wade phillips with romo, norv turner with rivers, mccarthy with farve, mora with vick, mooch with harrington (who had just been drafted the year previous) in detroit...there's probably more out there.

[CRA]

Perry Fewell in '09 kept Edwards

And I'm trying to remember if there is more.

promoted from with in. Coach didn't last. In year one Gailey has already gotten rid of one. The criteria in the 1st post was first 2 seasons as new HC.

last 3 years Singletary is the only one that didn't bring in new QBs.

going back 4 yrs the coaches had SB QBs that elected not to bring in a new QB.

the number that has brought in new QBs (despite young drafted talent -some w/ some decent work put in) in that time frame is huge.

[mmmbeans]

carroll brought in his own qb too, whitehurst just hasn't started yet.

[Ruff]

it doesn't happen too often but most teams with coaching changes are usually in a mess all over the place and don't really have a QB entrenched in the job (not that we do necessarily). only ones i can think of this decade is seattle/hasslebeck (going from holmgren to mora to carroll), caldwell with peyton, whisenhunt with warner (kind of), tomlin with benny, wade phillips with romo, norv turner with rivers, mccarthy with farve, mora with vick, mooch with harrington (who had just been drafted the year previous) in detroit...there's probably more out there.

Pretty much this.

While you're trying to get us to say that "it doesn't happen", it does.

The original question was way too obscure, because different people have different views of what rebuilding is. But, it does happen. How often? I'm not sure, because I don't know your definition of "rebuilding". But, over the course of the last five years, I'm sure we could find at least five examples, and that would average out to once a year.

[Ruff]

promoted from with in. Coach didn't last. In year one Gailey has already gotten rid of one. The criteria in the 1st post was first 2 seasons as new HC.

Um, was it?

I caused a stir by raising this question at another website. So, I may as well cause a stir here.

When has a coach come into a franchise, who is NEW to the franchise (no in-house promotions), and where the franchise is in a full rebuild mode, and not replaced the QB within a year?

Not once does it say two years, Head Coach, or HC.

Try reading some more, kthx.

[Cyberjag]

When a QB is established, then often a coach will stay with him. But I searched for a while and only found these instances:

1978, Chuck Knox, Buffalo, Joe Ferguson. Ferguson was a five year starter.

1983, Dan Henning, Atlanta, Steve Bartkowski. Bartkowski was a two-time pro-bowl QB who led the league in passing in 1980.

1986, Gene Stallings, Arizona, Neil Lomax. Lomax was well established there.

1989, Bruce Coslet, Ken O'Brien

1992, Ted Marchibroda, Jeff George

2001, Butch Davis, Cleveland, Tim Couch. Couch was the number one overall pick in 1999, and was doing well in 2000 before his season ended to injury in game seven.

And for the ONLY instance where the situation was like Carolina's and the QB wasn't changed, you have the 1996 Bucs, where Tony Dungy stuck with Trent Dilfer and went defensive in the draft. Granted, there wasn't a decent QB in the draft to take that year, the top one chosen was Tony Banks in the middle of the 2nd.

So there you go.

Next coach comes in and has JC, Tony Pike, and Matt Moore. He also has Armanti Edwards if he wants to get weird. And he has a high draft pick, which may get him someone like Locker or Luck.

So while I love Jimmy C and think he'll be a good NFL QB, I'm not ready to anoint him as the Franchise QB for the next decade. Not unless Hurney puts his foot down or hires Charlie Weis.

[Cyberjag]

promoted from with in. Coach didn't last. In year one Gailey has already gotten rid of one. The criteria in the 1st post was first 2 seasons as new HC.

last 3 years Singletary is the only one that didn't bring in new QBs.

going back 4 yrs the coaches had SB QBs that elected not to bring in a new QB.

the number that has brought in new QBs (despite young drafted talent -some w/ some decent work put in) in that time frame is huge.

Singletary was promoted from within.

[Ruff]

So while I love Jimmy C and think he'll be a good NFL QB, I'm not ready to anoint him as the Franchise QB for the next decade. Not unless Hurney puts his foot down or hires Charlie Weis.

As mentioned before, we will most likely have the same GM going into next season. The Head Coach doesn't draft players, the GM does. The Head Coach doesn't bring in players, the GM does.

So, Hurney may put his foot down and say that Clausen is going to be starting next year, no matter what.

[mmmbeans]

Denny Green gave Rich Gannon the boot because he didn't fit his offensive system. Gannon went on to have a pretty good career.

what I'm saying is that a few years of a bad qb will lead to a coaching change as quickly as it will a qb change. most coaches don't last long enough to try out multiple QBs.

[panthers55]

I think it depends on how Moore and Clausen do the rest of the year. As it stands right now Clausen will be here and Moore isn't likely to be. But if Clausen doesn't improve a lot and I mean alot, there will be at least 1 veteran signed not as a backup/mentor but to compete and likely take over the number 1 quarterback situation like happened with Weinke when Fox got here in 2002.

No new head coach is going to peg their future to a draft pick they may or may not like especially when it was only a second rounder and the price is very modest. Especially when we are likely to have a high first round and higher second rounder than where we picked Clausen. With a rookie cap likely, the money may not be prohibitive either. And we may easily go with a veteran as well who may know the new coach's system.

[realstandman]

So, Mike Singletary in SF is the only coach I can think of that didn't bring in his own QB within his first 2 seasons out of the past 3 seasons of coaching changes I can think of. That was off the top of my head so I could be missing some coaches. Indy promoted from within.

Wasn't he an internal hire? I believe he was the linebacker's coach.