So what the heck happened to John Fox anyway?(An honest question)

[higgs]

All that open-mouth gum chomping hurt his brain.

[Mr. Scot]

At the end of the day, I think Fox was a bit of a George Allen type (although not quite to that extreme) in that he had no interest in developing young players.

Fox believe in a conservative game approach and that included reliable vets over unreliable young players. A guy like Diggs might have not made the same big plays a kid like Anderson could, but he also wasn't going to make the big mistakes and Fox preferred the safer approach of playing a guy like Diggs.

A team that wants to build through the draft can't operate like this.

There's a certain philosophy that says it's not the team that makes the most plays that wins, but the one that makes the fewest mistakes.

Don't know that I buy into that idea, but it's clear Fox did.

[rayzor]

There's a certain philosophy that says it's not the team that makes the most plays that wins, but the one that makes the fewest mistakes.

Don't know that I buy into that idea, but it's clear Fox did.

that philosophy kept him average.

[pantherj]

It was what it was.

I think the 5 yard rule change combined with Jake's injury doomed Fox. It didn't help that Hurney planned for Moore to replace Jake as starter. What a fool.

[raleigh-panther]

He didn't have back to back winning seasons

He would not let Deangelo play.

He got lucky that some of the players that Capers and Siefert drafted helped to get him into that SB (Muhammed, Smith, Morgan, Jenkins). Siefert's horrible season gave him Peppers.

He got lucky with Delhomme (we see how that is working in Cleveland now.

He is a game manager not a game innovator; but, his pay check was at the innovator level (ala Bill in NE and Payton in NO and others). Not his fault that JR paid him, but, with pay of that level, comes expectations.

He had a coaching staff that few other people wanted at the same level (I don't see anyone beating down Davidson's door as OC and Meeks came when everyone else was gone). Turgovac is a line coach I believe with GB and that's were he should have always stayed.

He was not a teacher of young players.

In 9 years, the man never learned how to use a TE offensively or defend one.

He thought QBs were over-rated to winning. He never used a draft pick on a first round QB when he had the chance. Rogers was sitting there, we took Thomas Davis. Flacco was sitting there, and I believe we took Otah, and Delhomme's elbow had actually been bothering him long before he had that surgery and the team had to know it.

He was horrible at adjustments during the game.

His game plans were the same no matter the personnel he had to run them.

The game passed him by.

At the end of the day, he's gone, and the Panthers have moved on. It was time.

[Davis83]

Much like Chuck Knoll in Pittsburgh - the game changed and he was left behind.

As the game evolves, you have to be willing to tweak your style to keep up. You have to develope some young players along the way - you use FA to fill spots (not build a roster). You draft this year for "core" needs down the road.

During games, you may have to make adjustments - your offensive play book should encompass more than 3 formations and 8 plays.

Most importantly - when the owner says "I want this to happen" - you better listen.

Fox never did any of the above and now he's gone.

[rayzor]

Much like Chuck Knoll in Pittsburgh - the game changed and he was left behind.

As the game evolves, you have to be willing to tweak your style to keep up. You have to develope some young players along the way - you use FA to fill spots (not build a roster). You draft this year for "core" needs down the road.

During games, you may have to make adjustments - your offensive play book should encompass more than 3 formations and 8 plays.

Most importantly - when the owner says "I want this to happen" - you better listen.

Fox never did any of the above and now he's gone.

well said.

[MaineManPanther]

I don't think they game passed him or he's a bad coach.

Biggest thing that kept us back was a lack of a good consistent passing game. I don't doubt that he was a contributor to this, but if The Golden Calf of Bristol turns out well, then I think he'll do a fine job in Denver.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't think they game passed him or he's a bad coach.

Biggest thing that kept us back was a lack of a good consistent passing game. I don't doubt that he was a contributor to this, but if The Golden Calf of Bristol turns out well, then I think he'll do a fine job in Denver.

Ah, but who kept Mike McCoy at QB Coach and hired Rip Scherer when he left?

(not to mention setting the depth chart)

[rayzor]

also, until last year, fox had control of the player acquisitions. they got who he wanted.

[MaineManPanther]

Ah, but who kept Mike McCoy at QB Coach and hired Rip Scherer when he left?

(not to mention setting the depth chart)

Im hesitiant to base how much difference a QB coach had to do with it, given the QB's they had to work with, and the talent that was around them.

[panthers55]

Lots of good points have been made. One that hasn't been is that Fox to me came to us with a more aggressive mindset. Seems that over the years he went from an attacking style on defense to a more conservative bend don't break style. It could have been the transistion from Del Rio to Turgo to Meeks and subsequent changes in personnel, but it seems he lost some of the fire he brought here. Picking Rivera was one step toward regaining that edgy aggressive style of defense we played in 2002 when Fox was here his first year.

[PantherFanForLife]

Lots of good points have been made. One that hasn't been is that Fox to me came to us with a more aggressive mindset. Seems that over the years he went from an attacking style on defense to a more conservative bend don't break style. It could have been the transistion from Del Rio to Turgo to Meeks and subsequent changes in personnel, but it seems he lost some of the fire he brought here. Picking Rivera was one step toward regaining that edgy aggressive style of defense we played in 2002 when Fox was here his first year.

Loosing guys like Peppers didn't help either though. We certainly have become smaller on both offense and defense since his earlier days. Personally I'm not a big fan. I liked us bulked up at both O-line and defense.

I'm not sold on this quick and fast defense. It all started with the freaking Colts. I blame them.

[fjblair]

Lots of good points have been made. One that hasn't been is that Fox to me came to us with a more aggressive mindset. Seems that over the years he went from an attacking style on defense to a more conservative bend don't break style. It could have been the transistion from Del Rio to Turgo to Meeks and subsequent changes in personnel, but it seems he lost some of the fire he brought here. Picking Rivera was one step toward regaining that edgy aggressive style of defense we played in 2002 when Fox was here his first year.

For sure the defenses in later years were not nearly as aggressive as the early ones.