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Panthers Bringing in Newton for Visit

Proudiddy

By Proudiddy,
in Carolina Panthers

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monstercat Newbie

monstercat

Posted
Posted

Honestly, I'm surprised anyone uses the whole "national championship/Heisman trophy" thing as an argument.

If you take a look at the names of the guys that have done those things over the past 10-20 years, you'll see the vast majority of them did nothing in the NFL (if they even made it).

Folks arguing those things as if they meant something make me chuckle.

Hmmm...do you even remember who the Auburn starting QB was before Cam? I don't, but I did watch that same ("simple for the simple minded, apparently") offense struggle mightily to score points against Northwestern in their bowl game. If it's so damn easy, then why couldn't the other QB run that same offense anywhere near as well as Cam did?

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Hmmm...do you even remember who the Auburn starting QB was before Cam? I don't, but I did watch that same ("simple for the simple minded, apparently") offense struggle mightily to score points against Northwestern in their bowl game. If it's so damn easy, then why couldn't the other QB run that same offense anywhere near as well as Cam did?

Because not every quarterback had athletic ability that far exceeded nearly anyone else on the field to lean on that Cam did. Hell, for that matter, as a quarterback plays longer in an offense more is opened up to them. Cam's single year meant we only saw basically a small bit of what the offense with him could have been... and it was tailored to him because he had so little time to absorb it.

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monstercat Newbie

monstercat

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Because not every quarterback had athletic ability that far exceeded nearly anyone else on the field to lean on that Cam did. Hell, for that matter, as a quarterback plays longer in an offense more is opened up to them. Cam's single year meant we only saw basically a small bit of what the offense with him could have been... and it was tailored to him because he had so little time to absorb it.

Let's ignore the athleticism and what Cam did as a runner for a minute.

Here are the pure passing stats...

Chris Todd, who was a 24yr old senior in 09, completed 198 passes out of 328 attemps for a 60% completion rate, and threw for 22 TD's with 6 INT's.

Cam Newton completed 185 out of 280 passes for a 66% completion rate and threw for 30 TD's with 7 INT's and he had a higher average per attempt.

This was in the exact same offense with basically the same players and Chris Todd had the advantage, as far as maturity and div. 1 experience goes.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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It was not the same offense. It is physically impossible for it to have been the same offense unless Cam Newton was back there running the option for Todd. If you do not understand how a quarterback who is capable of running over people like Cam Newton who is complimented by a great running attack from his backs can open up a passing game, I don't know what to tell you. If it was the same option offense, we'd expect Todd to have some kind of rushing numbers - perhaps not amazing, like Cam's were, but something. Know what he had in 2009? -116 yards. On 44 carries. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it may have been a different offense.

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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It was not the same offense. It is physically impossible for it to have been the same offense unless Cam Newton was back there running the option for Todd. If you do not understand how a quarterback who is capable of running over people like Cam Newton who is complimented by a great running attack from his backs can open up a passing game, I don't know what to tell you. If it was the same option offense, we'd expect Todd to have some kind of rushing numbers - perhaps not amazing, like Cam's were, but something. Know what he had in 2009? -116 yards. On 44 carries. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it may have been a different offense.

It's the same offense just ran differently depending on the strengths of the QB.

Just a technicality but you point is still taken.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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Honestly, I'm surprised anyone uses the whole "national championship/Heisman trophy" thing as an argument.

If you take a look at the names of the guys that have done those things over the past 10-20 years, you'll see the vast majority of them did nothing in the NFL (if they even made it).

Folks arguing those things as if they meant something make me chuckle.

Should we link my thread full of pictures of guys that went undefeated and won the Heisman?

Who do you wan to QB this team going into the future?? Just curious.

Who I want is a bit of a silly question and there are so many different options for them I can't narrow it down. Here's what it could look like in a few different scenarios

The guys names aren't necessarily who they are but what they represent: Newton=Drafted Rookie, Moore=younger guy that could still develop into a full time starter,Clausen=deadweight, Volek = Mentor Vet

Newton/Moore/Clausen

Newton/Volek/Clausen

Moore/Volek/Clausen

Moore/Volek/Newton

I think the bolded is the most likely.

I would be happiest with Moore/Palmer/Kaepernick then Moore/Volek/Draft Pick

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monstercat Newbie

monstercat

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It was not the same offense. It is physically impossible for it to have been the same offense unless Cam Newton was back there running the option for Todd. If you do not understand how a quarterback who is capable of running over people like Cam Newton who is complimented by a great running attack from his backs can open up a passing game, I don't know what to tell you. If it was the same option offense, we'd expect Todd to have some kind of rushing numbers - perhaps not amazing, like Cam's were, but something. Know what he had in 2009? -116 yards. On 44 carries. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it may have been a different offense.

I'm well aware that Cam did different things because of his ability to run, but too many people are flat out ignoring what he did from the pocket, which was one of the best passing performances by any college QB in the country.

And FTR, one of the positives for Cam coming to Carolina, is his ability to take the running game to a whole new level, as well as opening up the passsing attack. I have already made that point more than once. People act as if you can't design plays to take advantage of an athletic QB in the NFL, and it's simply not true. The Chin was doing it with Cordell Stewart years ago.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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It's the same offense just ran differently depending on the strengths of the QB.

Just a technicality but you point is still taken.

When you have a running QB and a QB who can't run the offense is not the same. If it was the same offense, those play actions and all that wouldn't mean anything because the QB isn't a threat to run. Monstercat made a bad argument trying to prove Cam was good by improving the offense. Cam was great in college, you don't need to make false comparisons to prior offenses to prove that.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Hmmm...do you even remember who the Auburn starting QB was before Cam? I don't, but I did watch that same ("simple for the simple minded, apparently") offense struggle mightily to score points against Northwestern in their bowl game. If it's so damn easy, then why couldn't the other QB run that same offense anywhere near as well as Cam did?

How exactly does that do anything to refute the fact that playing the Heisman/National Championship card is a worthless argument?

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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When you have a running QB and a QB who can't run the offense is not the same. If it was the same offense, those play actions and all that wouldn't mean anything because the QB isn't a threat to run. Monstercat made a bad argument trying to prove Cam was good by improving the offense. Cam was great in college, you don't need to make false comparisons to prior offenses to prove that.

I agree but Gus didn't go and right up a whole new playbook he just changed the play calling and tweaked it a little bit . But I get what you are saying and (gasp) I agree with you.

:grouphug: :D

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