Classless

[WUnderhill]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Can't help but notice more and more of these very loudly outspoken Bryce Young defenders beginning a sentence about our only MVP in franchise history this way.

Telling.

Dude what? I said I wanted Cam’s career to be LONGER. You’ve lost it.

[WUnderhill]

6 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Cam had to play that way to win. We could have just lost games to keep him healthy I guess.

Not what I was saying. And it was a constant conversation while he was playing. Cam is who he was and his competitiveness was part of what made him great, but there are undoubtedly plenty of QBs who have achieved the highest levels of success who have gone out of their way to avoid contact. And as physical of a specimen as Cam was, his career was still derailed by injury.

[Shotgun]

3 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Not what I was saying. And it was a constant conversation while he was playing. Cam is who he was and his competitiveness was part of what made him great, but there are undoubtedly plenty of QBs who have achieved the highest levels of success who have gone out of their way to avoid contact. And as physical of a specimen as Cam was, his career was still derailed by injury.

What QB that has won a title wasn't willing to do a QB sneak? Or stand in the pocket knowing they were going to get crushed?

[frankw]

8 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Dude what? I said I wanted Cam’s career to be LONGER. You’ve lost it.

The post you quoted just said he wanted a QB willing to do whatever it takes for his team in those crucial situations in games. Even if Bryce Young wanted to do those things he just isn't built like that. Cam was. The problem was Ron Rivera relied on that too much often to save his own job. And the result was Cam's career was unfortunately shortened.

But you need a guy at QB with an edge and a mentality like that if you want to compete for anything of significance in this league. You're just never going to be able to do much if anything with a guy who can't even run a simple QB sneak because you're worried about him breaking in half.

[kungfoodude]

26 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

His style of play lends itself to not be injured too much. Then you watch someone like Baker or Dart and they are willing to run through a brick wall to score or get a first down. Now for obvious reasons Young shouldn't play that way but it will be hard to ever contend for a title with his safe style of play. 

I would have to disagree simply because Bryce leans play extender so that has led to a lot more big hits when he is scrambling. And he has definitely taken some serious shots in his time here. Bigger shots that some said he could. 

As you say, he isn't going to play like Josh Allen or Cam(those are the real examples you are searching for). But he doesn't wilt like David Carr did, either. 

Overall, I am no longer worried about Bryce's durability. That seems just fine. I am very, VERY worried about his QB abilities. That's a real concern.

24 minutes ago, strato said:

His durability was like the last negative I would look to in size related critique. Uh, evaluating him.
 

There have been plenty of small/short players at other positions that were tough as hell. RB, WR, some DBs and returners. 
And how tall was Sam Mills? 
His height, we know restricts his vision. His size inhibits ball security. Big time. I mean that could be attributed more to his lack of strength but it comes under size I suppose. 
I get that throwers don’t want that upper body too bulked and tightened up but he should have been building his base it doesn’t appear that he has done much. 

That's way too much of a theoretical argument for me to lend a ton of creedence to. I am not here to critique a QB's workout regimen. Between they, the team trainers and their own personal trainers it should be something that is tailored to whomever. If that isn't happening, it just is what it is and they probably didn't dedicate themselves enough.

Again, far from a worry for me with Bryce. His NFL QB ability is the sole concern for me.

[WUnderhill]

3 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

What QB that has won a title wasn't willing to do a QB sneak? Or stand in the pocket knowing they were going to get crushed?

Are we talking willing? I think if the coaches would ask Bryce Young to do a QB sneak he would. Not sure it’s the best idea. And I’ve seen him stand and deliver while taking hits. But you were talking before about QBs running through defenders for first downs, which is a different conversation imo.

[kungfoodude]

32 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Idk, I loved Cam, but would have loved him a lot more with a longer career. Tom Brady won plenty of titles without running through brick walls.

Cam was very honest about that. He said he got caught up too much in the Superman persona and the feeling he had to carry the team.

I bet if you asked him outside of a camera he would probably admit that he should have probably played the game with more focus on protecting the length of his career. With taking the hits and also protecting that arm with some of the really bad habits he had there.

[Shotgun]

Just now, WUnderhill said:

Are we talking willing? I think if the coaches would ask Bryce Young to do a QB sneak he would. Not sure it’s the best idea. And I’ve seen him stand and deliver while taking hits. But you were talking before about QBs running through defenders for first downs, which is a different conversation imo.

Not a good idea but a disadvantage not to be able to sneak it. I think his style can work but he needs to be almost perfect in other ways to be successful.  

[WUnderhill]

8 minutes ago, frankw said:

The post you quoted just said he wanted a QB willing to do whatever it takes for his team in those crucial situations in games. Even if Bryce Young wanted to do those things he just isn't built like that. Cam was. The problem was Ron Rivera relied on that too much often to save his own job. And the result was Cam's career was unfortunately shortened.

But you need a guy at QB with an edge and a mentality like that if you want to compete for anything of significance in this league. You're just never going to be able to do much if anything with a guy who can't even run a simple QB sneak because you're worried about him breaking in half.

No, the post said style of play, not willingness. It said QBs running through brick walls (meaning defenders was my interpretation but open to having misinterpreted this particular part) to get first downs, referring to plays in which Baker Mayfield took a lot of contact and Jaxon Dart launched head first into a defender. I don’t think THAT is necessary for a QB to be successful.

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

What QB that has won a title wasn't willing to do a QB sneak? Or stand in the pocket knowing they were going to get crushed?

I doubt it's willingness. It's just not smart. Both from a player protection perspective and also.....Bryce isn't built for that. Not all QB's are. What advantage would he have that our RB's wouldn't? It's not reach. It's not build.

We don't run a QB sneak with him on short yardage because....that's just fuging stupid.

[frankw]

1 minute ago, WUnderhill said:

No, the post said style of play, not willingness. It said QBs running through brick walls (meaning defenders was my interpretation but open to having misinterpreted this particular part) to get first downs, referring to plays in which Baker Mayfield took a lot of contact and Jaxon Dart launched head first into a defender. I don’t think THAT is necessary for a QB to be successful.

Running through a wall I took as a remark more in the sense of showing your teammates you're willing to do whatever it takes in high pressure moments that define games and seasons. Not literally playing with complete reckless abandon. You want to limit those scenarios with a high probably for negative outcomes clearly but I'll never complain about a guy who is the face of the team wanting to make the most of moments like that when the games are on the line. We haven't had that mentality here for quite awhile now.

[Shotgun]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I doubt it's willingness. It's just not smart. Both from a player protection perspective and also.....Bryce isn't built for that. Not all QB's are. What advantage would he have that our RB's wouldn't? It's not reach. It's not build.

We don't run a QB sneak with him on short yardage because....that's just fuging stupid.

Im not saying he should, but its one more play that's off the table. Do you think the eagles would be as good without the QB sneak? 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Not a good idea but a disadvantage not to be able to sneak it. I think his style can work but he needs to be almost perfect in other ways to be successful.  

Yeah but if you are talking about something like an extremely rarely used or needed play like a QB sneak, it's already a pretty off the rails argument. That doesn't factor in enough to W's and L's to be something that is particularly relevant. 

If you want to talk overall arm strength, field vision, footwork, consistency, athleticism, etc on Bryce, those are all valid critiques of his game and why he hasn't been successful. But the oddball obsessions about pretty meaningless aspects are a bit bizarre. QB sneaks? Not enough 40+ yard passes? Workout regimen??

Guys....there is ample stuff to criticize without this kind of nonsense.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Shotgun said:

Im not saying he should, but its one more play that's off the table. Do you think the eagles would be as good without the QB sneak? 

That is a very different and very unfair comparison for literally all 31 other teams. They have that stupid, unwatchable play they run to a ton of success that no other team can do at that level. fug them and that crap. Can't wait until the league bans it.