First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[CRA]

38 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

ESPN has this qualifier. 

To qualify, a player must have at least 14 attempts per team's games played

• Statistics are updated nightly

NFL.com does not and it has Gunner and Cam Akers with the best rating.  Just another reason why pure stats are silly.  Funny enough neither of them remove data from games players didn't start or finish.  Weird right?

data manipulation! 

 

[ForJimmy]

28 minutes ago, CRA said:

from my perspective, I call looking at quarterbacks starts when talking about him....and someone calling that manipulating the data, a wild take though.   Think it's the most accurate way to view what you get out of a QB when his team and the opposing team both have game planned w/ that QB in mind and you have the full game.  All these random bits of games distort the statistics IMO. 

What does saying Shough is playing surprisingly well mean? Literally nothing outside of our next opponent has a rookie playing surprisingly well (and it's enough we can't dismiss that after a very surprising first game vs us).   

and it's not a favor done just for him.  I've always taken out the random games form dudes when talking about them when the sample size is small.  I mean, ask PJ Walker to come in a blowout or start a game and IMO you get 2 very different things out of PJ Walker.   If you are playing against him next week, it's probably best to acknowledge the variant that starts vs inserted late.    

It's pretty simple as they are very close.  When you look at season totals Bryce barely beats him in a few stats.  When you look at starts he barely beats Bryce.  Most of the major sites have their data listed by season totals but you are looking at starts as it helps your case.  That's all.  Regardless they are playing close with Bo Nix right there as well. 

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

data manipulation! 

 

What do you think that means?

[CRA]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

It's pretty simple as they are very close.  When you look at season totals Bryce barely beats him in a few stats.  When you look at starts he barely beats Bryce.  Most of the major sites have their data listed by season totals but you are looking at starts as it helps your case.  That's all.  Regardless they are playing close with Bo Nix right there as well. 

it's not so much my case, as IMO you suggest I am uniquely doing something here for Shough...... but how I simply have always talked about QBs.   Specifically, ones that haven't started all season.  I have done that with basically everyone for years.  

I mean, I guess my point is, you can disagree with caring about starts and think backup player garbage time games is just as important of data and shouldn't be separated.   I'm just saying I'm not uniquely doing it for Shough.   That's what I always do.  I have done it with all the Panthers QBs over the years that weren't starters the full season. 

 

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

What do you think that means?

I think without manipulating the data, Gunner is the GOAT

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

it's not so much my case, as IMO you suggest I am uniquely doing something here for Shough...... but how I simply have always talked about QBs.   Specifically, ones that haven't started all season.  I have done that with basically everyone for years.  

I mean, I guess my point is, you can disagree with caring about starts and think backup player garbage time games is just as important of data and shouldn't be separated.   I'm just saying I'm not uniquely doing it for Shough.   That's what I always do.  I have done it with all the Panthers QBs over the years that weren't starters the full season. 

 

Regardless most lists are not removing data from games players missed part of whether they got hurt or came off the bench.  I don't think people are removing the game Bryce came off the bench when they are looking at this totals last year.  It's typically cumulative.

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I think without manipulating the data, Gunner is the GOAT

Exactly.  Which means data.... doesn't always tell the whole story!  Congrats we are officially fully circle again.  Love talking in circles with you.  Data without context is pointless.  You can also skew it to tell whatever story you want, like looking at just games a player starts, GWDs, PFF etc...  

[CRA]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

Regardless most lists are not removing data from games players missed part of whether they got hurt or came off the bench.  I don't think people are removing the game Bryce came off the bench when they are looking at this totals last year.  It's typically cumulative.

yeah, and in this case, people wanted to talk about a full time starter vs a guy that had garbage time games mixed in.  

I would wager a fun bet, I can find a post of mine, where I did that very thing for Bryce Young last year and edited those games out. 

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, and in this case, people wanted to talk about a full time starter vs a guy that had garbage time games mixed in.  

I would wager a fun bet, I can find a post of mine, where I did that very thing for Bryce Young last year and edited those games out. 

If you actually edited those games out every time you mention his last season stats then more power to you.  That's not the norm as most people just pull the stats from major sites like ESPN and NFL.com.  

Have fun looking at your posts for it.  Maybe you will see how fixated you have become on a certain topic.

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Goddamn you actually took time to right all that out.  If you think their line and rbs are better than ours you are clearly losing it

As substantive and well thought out a response as I've come to expect

(Note: This is sarcasm)

[CRA]

40 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

If you actually edited those games out every time you mention his last season stats then more power to you.  That's not the norm as most people just pull the stats from major sites like ESPN and NFL.com.  

Have fun looking at your posts for it.  Maybe you will see how fixated you have become on a certain topic.

Didn’t do it every time for Bryce’s   Didn’t do it every time with PJ Walker.  But pending the convo, sometimes it was warranted in certain convos and discussions. 

I would assume the Panthers aren’t spending lots of time on the 2 games he game in during the 4th and 3rd q during film study… and are spending most of their time studying the games he started in.  

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Correct and the defense is probably in prevent.  These were referred to as "garbage time" stats when Bryce does them.  It should help the QB in theory.  

Are you suggesting garbage time stats aren't equally valid?

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

 the Bryce stans basically have been ripping off the Skip/The Golden Calf of Bristol argument.   It doesn't matter if he is below average 98% of his snaps.  That 2%!!!

Don't know that I buy this as being true, but hey if that formula wins games, I'll take it

Edited 15 minutes ago by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Well, if that formula wins games, I'll take it

I mean, that’s sort of the point.  We all know the Skip logic was garbage and that’s why Tim is on TV.  Yet here we are….acting like Brycemania is something different