Go after Shedeur this offseason.

[Mr. Scot]

12 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, I keep trying to get this point across but it's wild how there doesn't exist any statistic on this planet that shows Bryce to be better than Kyler nor apparently any reasonable measure at all other than, "Cause I said so."

Well, I guess if that's the way you want to make an argument, I can just never be wrong at all. Sounds pretty familiar in this modern society we have here.....

Being benched and on the verge of let go may not be "statistical" but I assure you it matters. 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Car123 said:

The people who aren’t doomers have seen progress and are hoping he will continue to progress and become a consistently great quarterback. No one is saying this is the finished product and has played well all year.

Sure but how many genuinely successful NFL starting QB's are this bad for this long before figuring it out? Let's be honest, almost none of them get this many opportunities with their original drafted team.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Being benched and on the verge of let go may not be "statistical" but I assure you it matters. 

Okay, so when Bryce got benched last season? That counts the exact same amount, right? 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Okay, so when Bryce got benched last season? That counts the exact same amount, right? 

If Murray comes back, we can talk.

And dude, a guy who's watched every Arizona game gave you a whole list of things to talk about and you responded with no substance at all.

Just basically, "well you're wrong because...stats"

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Okay, so when Bryce got benched last season? That counts the exact same amount, right? 

If not for the car crash, would Bryce have seen the field again? 

[Car123]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Sure but how many genuinely successful NFL starting QB's are this bad for this long before figuring it out? Let's be honest, almost none of them get this many opportunities with their original drafted team.

Drew Brees is an example. poo, Geno Smith, Alex Smith, Daniel Jones were bad for longer. 
 

Edit: Sam Danrnold was worse.

Edited 1 hour ago by Car123

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

10 years ago, the reactions to this thread would have at the least made me question myself and what I’m seeing in my evaluation versus what I’m feeling.  But not now.  I know where this mentality comes from and we’re seeing it unfold in real-time, everyday in society.  Call someone else dumb while any and all statistics supports their argument, but if you just keep doubling down, you can make people forget about facts.

It’s also why my replies to this despite 16 pages have been pretty sparse outside of one, and that post was mostly ignored because it called the BS out for what it is.  
 

I don’t take it personal, because I know for them, it is VERY personal.  Not a person alive on this planet is going to tell me, nor convince me, that any other starter in the NFL isn’t more physically talented than Bryce.  We have all read and seen the stats - 32nd out of 32 starters since being drafted.  We have watched the games.  Countless games where Bryce struggles to hit 100 yards until the 4th.  Countless times he fumbles untouched, trips over his own feet, under throws or throws behind, or just throws straight to a defender who has been lurking in the same spot from the snap.  But, there is this mysterious ancient metric that us simpletons have not gained access to, that makes him better than the stats and eye test combined.

Kyler Murray is wildly physically gifted, but especially for his size.  He has a laser arm, and he’s a quick, twitchy athlete.  Baseball background, multi-sport star.  And he’s statistically better than Bryce.  In my observations and estimation, his only downside is I don’t think he has ever applied himself and he doesn’t prepare as he should.  He relies on his talent alone, and I think that also carries over to questions about leadership.  But, all of that considered, these guys don’t want him over Bryce.  So again, I ask why?  The same logic is applied to Shedeur.  Hell, I would apply the same logic to Brissett.  Jameis.  Any fuging body with physical talent to throw a football.  If you have the worst starter in the league, proven over almost three full years, what do you owe him?  Hint: It’s not another year.  One can deduce from that point that you could easily find a replacement that will give you better production, even from someone who isn’t a current starter.  

I knew society had gotten dumber, but damn…  “don’t tell me what’s better!  I want to keep fuging myself and nobody can stop me!”

Lots of irony here...

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

I have no problem waiting to see on Shedeur.  My problem is the blowback at any suggestion of anyone other than Bryce when he and his stans have had us waiting for almost 3 full years for some semblance of average QB play.  Bryce deserves nothing.  He has earned nothing with his play.  Far better QBs and players in the history of the NFL have lost their opportunity over far, far less.  All this coddling and protecting is ridiculous.  

I don’t know if Shedeur will be great.  I am confident he will be, at minimum, solid for the entirety of his career, and being a rookie, I believe he could be much more based off what he is showing.  But, at the end of the day, if Shedeur ends up washing out?  Cool.  Doesn’t hurt my feelings.  I’m basing my opinion off of what I see and what the stats say.  Does he have some flaws?  Sure.  But (almost) every QB does.  What he is doing as a rookie is damn impressive.  In a handful of games as a rookie, he has made plays that we didn’t see from Bryce for almost two full seasons.  I look at his deep throws the last few weeks, and I even heard someone recently comment on it with my same exact thoughts - he is throwing guys open.  And on the deep throws, he is letting them catch it in stride.  Then I look at stuff like changing of the arm angle, adjusting velocity and angle, etc., The last TD he threw that was contested, he was under immediate pressure and he changed his arm slot and layered the ball into the receiver to give him a chance to make a play.  And then he’s hit guys in stride 50 yards downfield.  The receivers didn’t have to wait for it, didn’t have to slow up, the throw didn’t allow the defender back in the play, it didn’t carry the receiver off his line.  We didn’t see these things from Bryce until, imo, the games this year, in year three.  That run last season, he was not making the throws he’s making this season in his good games.  The deep throws against the Rams, imo, were his best placed throws of his career on deep balls.  And that’s not immediacy bias, i also feel that way because these games count, unlike the end of season stretch last year.  So again, it’s taken him three years to make throws that guys like Dart, Shedeur, and Shough are making as rookies.  And yet, a huge faction of our fanbase believe Bryce should be held in some sort of reverence for being the worst starting QB in the league over the last three seasons.  It’s insane. 

and again, to be clear, I want Bryce to figure it out finally, if it’s possible for him to do so.  Put together a storybook run and let’s win the whole thing… but, due to your resume, we’re still gonna bring in competition next season.  Period.

Yeah...no to Shedeur does not equal "nobody over Bryce". 

[LinvilleGorge]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nope, but I do see it happen a lot.

Again, it's why I don't bother with them. 

You won't just admit that you tried to cherry pick stats to prove a point and got called out for it? C'mon man... I mean, that's literally exactly what you did.

You argument boils down to "I think a thing and no measurable metrics will convince me otherwise" then you tried to use some metrics to demonstrate your point and just proved me right. LOL

I get it, "lies, damn lies, and statistics". You can cherry pick numbers to argue just about anything you want... except when all the numbers are screaming the opposite.

[Car123]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

Literally no one would be celebrating Stafford barely hitting 200 yards in a game vs Carolina

Your fascination with passing yards is fascinating.

You’re almost as bad as those people who say Cam wasn’t a good quarterback because he had over 4000 passing yards once.

Edited 1 hour ago by Car123

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm pretty sure Shedeur is gonna be a flash in the pan but I'm also pretty sure that if he continues to play decently that he's not gonna be avaliable anyway. And if he is made available yeah, it could be the Browns doing Browns things again but it would be a pretty big red flag. Organizations just don't part with QBs who have shown much of anything after only a rookie season. You're talking about a potential valuable asset on a bottom of the barrel contract. The only way they'd consider moving hin if he continues to show much is if they think they're absolutely fleecing the other team.

Pretty much my take...

Mind you, I'm iffy on Bryce proving to be a consistent starter as well. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Pretty much my take...

Mind you, I'm iffy on Bryce proving to be a consistent starter as well. 

I think we've seen Bryce's ceiling. It's basically his recent play. If the D is playing well and you can lean on the running game and just let him dink and dunk and pray he can hit one or two downfield throws you can win with Bryce. But your margin of error is extremely small and you're gonna need a turnover margin advantage to beat good teams with that formula. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

You won't just admit that you tried to cherry pick stats to prove a point and got called out for it? C'mon man... I mean, that's literally exactly what you did.

You argument boils down to "I think a thing and no measurable metrics will convince me otherwise" then you tried to use some metrics to demonstrate your point and just proved me right. LOL

I wouldn't say "called out"  given that you focused on an accusation but haven't even attempted to answer the substance of my statements about how unreliable stats can be.

I can focus it a little closer if you like...

Should and interception that happens because a receiver made a poor attempt at a catch and deflected it to a defended reflect negatively on the quarterback who threw a perfectly good pass? 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If Murray comes back, we can talk.

And dude, a guy who's watched every Arizona game gave you a whole list of things to talk about and you responded with no substance at all.

Just basically, "well you're wrong because...stats"

Oh yes, the "guy on the internet who claims to have watched all the Arizona games but also all the Carolina games" metric. 

Mr. Scot, is this the threshold you have for information now??