Why does Bryce get the blame?

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

This keeps coming up a lot:

Why does Canales give Bryce such a long leash? Why does he keep putting him out there.

There's one really important answer here. It doesn't cherry pick a game, it doesn't take into account draft position, or even height and weight.

The number one reason Dave Canales keeps starting Bryce Young is:

The QB bench.

Look at it. Look at it.

That is one dusty ass bench. The Red Rifle can no longer be reloaded. And there's literally no one else there. We've shuffled the practice squad guys a couple of times for QB prospects and they can't even claim a jersey.

That's management, not coaching. 

Not necessarily... 

What I honestly wish more people understood is that Canales doesn't necessarily look at Bryce the way we do. People are looking for excuses based on an assumption that he does. 

But I think if we're honest with ourselves, he doesn't. 

Canales may genuinely believe we can win, and even win big, with Bryce at question. 

Do I believe it? No, but what I, you or anyone else believes doesn't really matter.

So basically, if Canales believes in Young, then He's going to continue working with him as the starter until there comes a point where he doesn't. 

That likely ends up being a sh-t sandwich for Panther fans, but what's new?

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

Nah. I'm talking nuts and bolts football. You're trying to deflect from the fact that you don't understand the difference between a stylistic analysis and a measure of ability.

You can go back to pre-draft analysis and you'll find a lot of the talk(even on this same board) had Bryce pegged as a WCO or possibly an E-P fit. That idea came from understanding the schemes and matching them to his streniand weaknesses as a prospect.

(and yes, he has strengths; hell, even Manziel had strengths)

Again though, since you seem to need this simplified even further, just answer these two questions:

- Who was the college OC that Bryce thrived under?

- What kind of concepts did he run in the NFL?

 

until you address simple realties, there is no reason to follow your distractions away from it and all your predictable bologna.  And I’m too old to fall for your baiting insults lol. 

24th ranked offense

25th ranked passing offense

26th comp %

Top 10 in bad throw %

*and there are a LOT of people helping Bryce out this year in the NFL sucking in 2025.  Because the production this year looks worse stacked up to last season. 

These are not the results of a QB that fits lol

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, strato said:

That is really what I thought they took him to do.  
At least a few.5050 balls downfield.  

That'd primarily be an example of a Coryell type receiver, though a WCO can sometimes take deep shots as well. 

The guys that are gonna best fit our attack though are the YAC guys, regardless of size.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

 

 

until you address simple realties, there is no reason to follow your distractions away from it and all your predictable bologna.  And I’m too old to fall for your baiting insults lol. 

24th ranked offense

25th ranked passing offense

26th comp %

Top 10 in bad throw %

*and there are a LOT of people helping Bryce out this year in the NFL sucking in 2025.  Because the production this year looks worse stacked up to last season. 

These are not the results of a QB that fits lol

Ah yes, the old "accuse your opponent of what you're actually trying to do" tactic. Always amusing

You wanna drop out? No problem, but you should probably do so by just admitting the conversation is over your head. 

Though truth be told, even if you don't wanna admit it, I'm pretty sure anyone reading this, watching you dodge the questions and just cut and paste the same recycled answers over and over again can probably already see that

[strato]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not necessarily... 

What I honestly wish more people understood is that Canales doesn't necessarily look at Bryce the way we do. People are looking for excuses based on an assumption that he does. 

But I think if we're honest with ourselves, he doesn't. 

Canales may genuinely believe we can win, and even win big, with Bryce at question. 

Do I believe it? No, but what I, you or anyone else believes doesn't really matter.

So basically, if Canales believes in Young, then He's going to continue working with him as the starter until there comes a point where he doesn't. 

That likely ends up being a sh-t sandwich for Panther fans, but what's new?

Well, his job is to win and make Bryce better and other stuff too but he has to have a certain amount of buy in to make that work. If it is real or he has to talk himself into believing it, as coach and leader and in the context of the present time with the whole team needing to believe, who knows? You lie if you have to. 
I think you have have to separate that Canales from the detached offseason evaluation Canales. It is possible that you are correct and he is sold on Bryce. It is also possible that he isn’t, but cannot confess.  

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That'd primarily be an example of a Coryell type receiver, though a WCO can sometimes take deep shots as well. 

The guys that are gonna best fit our attack though are the YAC guys, regardless of size.

Canales has never been part of big YAC offenses in the NFL.  That’s not his tree.  Not in Seattle, Tampa or here.  Every O he has been associated with basically has been bottom half of the league in YAC. 

That’s what Bryce needs to happen though 

2 very different things….and very much gets into why the middle school QB doesn’t fit 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, strato said:

Well, his job is to win and make Bryce better and other stuff too but he has to have a certain amount of buy in to make that work. If it is real or he has to talk himself into believing it, as coach and leader and in the context of the present time with the whole team needing to believe, who knows? You lie if you have to.

I think you have have to separate that Canales from the detached offseason evaluation Canales. It is possible that you are correct and he is sold on Bryce. It is also possible that he isn’t, but cannot confess. 

Sold, or in the process of being sold. Could be either way.

Consider this for a second...

Last season, our defensive coordinator steered what many have called the worst defense in NFL history. 

Canales would absolutely have been justified in firing him, and no one would have blamed him if he had. 

But what did he do?

He gave Evero another chance to come back and prove he could be better.

Does that tell us something about Canales? I think it does.

Now apply that to Bryce

[strato]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That'd primarily be an example of a Coryell type receiver, though a WCO can sometimes take deep shots as well. 

The guys that are gonna best fit our attack though are the YAC guys, regardless of size.

Okay then.

To me that means Russell Wilson was Coryell. Because I see the proposition completely in the Russell Wilson punt/pass put it up for grabs mold. Count on the receiver to catch it or knock it down. 
 

And the reason I thought that was the intent with Legette is the abysmal downfield game from 2023. As in, there was barely any.
 

I look at it as if… the result of a deep attempt isn’t as important as the opponent understanding they have to defend it. So I was all for some 50/50s. Coryell, Walsh whoever. 
I do favor the Coryell approach personally but also very much value versatility, it doesn’t have to be strict. Just make the defense defend the whole field, however you do it. It has to include downfield throws. 
 

 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sold, or in the process of being sold. Could be either way.

Consider this for a second...

Last season, our defensive coordinator steered what many have called the worst defense in NFL history. 

Canales would absolutely have been justified in firing him, and no one would have blamed him if he had. 

But what did he do?

He gave Evero another chance to come back and prove he could be better.

Does that tell us something about Canales? I think it does.

Now apply that to Bryce

Canales didn’t hire Evero.  Just like he didn’t hire Jim Caldwell and Dom Capers.   Doubtful the HC no one wanted had tons of power to do what he wanted here….which likely gets into our QB decisions

please see my avatar picture if you are confused about the point made 

[strato]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sold, or in the process of being sold. Could be either way.

Consider this for a second...

Last season, our defensive coordinator steered what many have called the worst defense in NFL history. 

Canales would absolutely have been justified in firing him, and no one would have blamed him if he had. 

But what did he do?

He gave Evero another chance to come back and prove he could be better.

Does that tell us something about Canales? I think it does.

Now apply that to Bryce

So yeah let’s blame a DC for failing to succeed after they pillaged your defense in every manner available to them to prop up their QB. For two hard years like scorched earth they tore that defense down and spent the proceeds on the offense. You know. Draft, cap, FA. Drained the defense. 
Whatever you think of Evero. Whoever the DC is. No one can compete with what they gave him. 
The whole organization should have been apologizing to him. 

I am no Evero homer but let’s be real. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Canales has never been part of big YAC offenses in the NFL.  That’s not his tree.  Not in Seattle, Tampa or here.  Every O he has been associated with basically has been bottom half of the league in YAC. 

That’s what Bryce needs to happen though 

2 very different things 

YAC is only one part of a WCO.

Darrell Bevell, Brian Schottenheimer and Shane Waldron all ran offenses with heavy WCO concepts (rhythm, tempo, timing routes, quick releases, short passes as long handoffs, etc).

Heck, Waldron came out of a Shanahan tree. Can't get much more WCO than that unless you invoke Bill Walsh.

Didn't hurt that they had Russell Wilson either. WCOs often function better with a mobile quarterback. 

Do you know why?

[carolinanimal]

13 minutes ago, strato said:

Okay then.

To me that means Russell Wilson was Coryell. Because I see the proposition completely in the Russell Wilson punt/pass put it up for grabs mold. Count on the receiver to catch it or knock it down. 
 

And the reason I thought that was the intent with Legette is the abysmal downfield game from 2023. As in, there was barely any.
 

I look at it as if… the result of a deep attempt isn’t as important as the opponent understanding they have to defend it. So I was all for some 50/50s. Coryell, Walsh whoever. 
I do favor the Coryell approach personally but also very much value versatility, it doesn’t have to be strict. Just make the defense defend the whole field, however you do it. It has to include downfield throws. 
 

 

i just think that this offense directly shadows what Bryce is comfortable doing. thats why it looks like it does. A lot of throws to the outside of the wr route tree, the flat, comeback, out(sometimes) and the corner. this with rollouts is what i think he is most comfortable doing. The problem dave canales has is i dont think he is as comfortable or even good throwing the inside part of the wr route tree, the go, the post , the drag , the curl(50/50) or the slant (50/50). that eliminates a lot of possible plays. 

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

YAC is only one part of a WCO.

Darrell Bevell, Brian Schottenheimer and Shane Waldron all ran offenses with heavy WCO concepts (rhythm, tempo, timing routes, quick releases, short passes as long handoffs, etc).

Heck, Waldron came out of a Shanahan tree. Can't get much more WCO than that unless you invoke Bill Walsh.

Didn't hurt that they had Russell Wilson either. WCOs often function better with a mobile quarterback. 

Do you know why?

All super cool.  Let’s stay on task here.  We talking Bryce Young and Dave Canales.  I know you don’t want to but I’m not going anywhere else with you at this point as has been told to you over and over.  

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, strato said:

Okay then.

To me that means Russell Wilson was Coryell. Because I see the proposition completely in the Russell Wilson punt/pass put it up for grabs mold. Count on the receiver to catch it or knock it down. 
 

And the reason I thought that was the intent with Legette is the abysmal downfield game from 2023. As in, there was barely any.
 

I look at it as if… the result of a deep attempt isn’t as important as the opponent understanding they have to defend it. So I was all for some 50/50s. Coryell, Walsh whoever. 
I do favor the Coryell approach personally but also very much value versatility, it doesn’t have to be strict. Just make the defense defend the whole field, however you do it. It has to include downfield throws. 

His OCs were all guys who ran a lot of WCO concepts. Heck, even in college he was work some of the same things. 

To be clear, WCO doesn't exclude chucking it downfield. If you ever watched the Eagles under Reid, McNabb did at least three or four of those a game. 

As far as preferences, I used to be primarily a Coryell guy and hated the WCO (me and another guy used to have those debates on an annual basis). I came around to it later on.

These days I'm looking into E-P