2027: Sharing my thoughts on the cap without a lotta research

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, cranky said:

Trai Turner was a 5 time pro bowler - not  some "trash OT" guy and Stewart went to the PB that year as well.

Anyway, if you really think Newton didn't have any talent to work with after I listed the 10 pro bowlers on the team his rookie years, than I guess there's nothing left for me to say.

Trai Turner wasn't an OT. I shouldn't have to explain that. J. Stew went to the Pro Bowl with under 1000 rushing yards (8th in the league) on barely over 4ypc (28th) and only 6 TDs (tied for 22nd)... because we went 15-1. 

You're leaning awfully hard into this "rookie year" thing so let's look more at the offense in that ROY season...

Cam was 10th in the league in passing yardage, 12th in TDs, 2nd in rushing TDs with the Panthers being 7th in yards gained and 6th in points scored.

Anymore trash tier arguments you'd like to offer up? Because you're flailing bad.

[Khyber53]

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

For starters, and again I am not sure what his capacity is in the media or how connected he is to the team, but I posted above Al Wallace says he is "absolutely" getting 50+ a year and he deserves it.  I obviously strongly disagree with it but it feels like like season when the team is slow leaking info to gauge the temp.

 

Secondly nobody on Gods green earth is going to sign an extension making less than he is making now.  Thats just crazy talk.  

Was a round number. Say $30 million. $40 million. Whatever. It all really depends on what product he puts out there this season, doesn't it?

[strato]

18 minutes ago, cranky said:

I can assure you I am not trying to make anyone like him as I know that's a fools game at this point. I just like the "friendly" banter to be honest lol. 

Three years of “banter” is a dark place. Same poo over and over. I just want it decided. By him.
I need to see him respond when a top defense clamps down on our run game and dares us to throw. I need to see him not wilt in those circumstances. 
 

His small margins for error make everything harder for him but he asked for it and the team asked for it. That’s what you are working with. Time to show it isn’t a waste of time. Cause it feels like a waste of time so far. 
 

[SmokinwithWilly]

20 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Was a round number. Say $30 million. $40 million. Whatever. It all really depends on what product he puts out there this season, doesn't it?

If he's doesn't produce we need to move on. He's not going to take a transition QB deal, or guys that have been on multiple teams,  because that's what those numbers are. Guys that are getting their second deal with the original team are getting in the 50s. 

Edited 7 hours ago by SmokinwithWilly

[cranky]

35 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Trai Turner wasn't an OT. I shouldn't have to explain that. J. Stew went to the Pro Bowl with under 1000 rushing yards (8th in the league) on barely over 4ypc (28th) and only 6 TDs (tied for 22nd)... because we went 15-1. 

You're leaning awfully hard into this "rookie year" thing so let's look more at the offense in that ROY season...

Cam was 10th in the league in passing yardage, 12th in TDs, 2nd in rushing TDs with the Panthers being 7th in yards gained and 6th in points scored.

Anymore trash tier arguments you'd like to offer up? Because you're flailing bad.

You implied the OL was trash. I simply pointed out there were 2 pro bowlers on it plus they brought in Michael Oher. That line definetly wasn't trash. And I'm sorry you feel the need to belittle Jonathan Stewart to make Newton look better but the fact is he had right at 1100 total yards and 8 TDs. You say the only reason he was selected to the PB was because of Newton. I say he earned it and was a integral part of the Panthers' success that year.

And with all those stats they still only went 6-10 and that is with a laundry list of pro bowlers on both sides of the line. 

But I forgot, you said Newton didn't have as much talent to work with as Bryce has had so I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time here.

 

[cranky]

27 minutes ago, strato said:

Three years of “banter” is a dark place. Same poo over and over. I just want it decided. By him.
I need to see him respond when a top defense clamps down on our run game and dares us to throw. I need to see him not wilt in those circumstances. 
 

His small margins for error make everything harder for him but he asked for it and the team asked for it. That’s what you are working with. Time to show it isn’t a waste of time. Cause it feels like a waste of time so far. 
 

Pretty sure it will all be answered this year. EIther put up or shut up as they say.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, cranky said:

You implied the OL was trash. I simply pointed out there were 2 pro bowlers on it plus they brought in Michael Oher. That line definetly wasn't trash. And I'm sorry you feel the need to belittle Jonathan Stewart to make Newton look better but the fact is he had right at 1100 total yards and 8 TDs. You say the only reason he was selected to the PB was because of Newton. I say he earned it and was a integral part of the Panthers' success that year.

And with all those stats they still only went 6-10 and that is with a laundry list of pro bowlers on both sides of the line. 

But I forgot, you said Newton didn't have as much talent to work with as Bryce has had so I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time here.

 

A big part of the issue here seems to be that you simply interpret words typed as what you want to argue against not what was actually said while you flip flop between rookie season and SB season combining the best of both rosters.

[cranky]

16 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

If he's doesn't produce we need to move on. He's not going to take a transition QB deal, or guys that have been on multiple teams,  because that's what those numbers are. Guys that are getting their second deal with the original team are getting in the 50s. 

I've always supported him but if he declined an offer from the Panthers, I would be fine with him walking. I trust the FO enough to support their decision on what he's worth. For what it's worth, i would not have said that several years back. Thankfully the Fitterman, Hurney, Gettleman, Rhule and Reich days are behind us.

[cranky]

22 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

A big part of the issue here seems to be that you simply interpret words typed as what you want to argue against not what was actually said while you flip flop between rookie season and SB season combining the best of both rosters.

I simply responded to your post - paragraph by paragraph. 

The bottom line is, you think Young has had more talent to work with than Newton. I disagree.

I posted all the talent each had to work with their rookie years and you still stated Newton had less talent. Again, I disagree. 

You said his OL in 2015 was trash. I pointed out there were two pro bowlers on it and while Micahael Oher wasn't a pro bowler, he was far from trash so again, disagree.

You forgot to mention Olsen played that year, another pro bowler as well, so I reminded you he played as well as Stewart (another pro bowler who according to you only got there because of Newton).

The inital post was in response to the statement Young couldn't win a SB even with a roter of Pro Bowlers. I simply pointed out that Newton couldn't either. That doesn't diminish how good Newton was - just pointing out that wasn't a good comparison.

Edited 7 hours ago by cranky

[SmokinwithWilly]

27 minutes ago, cranky said:

I've always supported him but if he declined an offer from the Panthers, I would be fine with him walking. I trust the FO enough to support their decision on what he's worth. For what it's worth, i would not have said that several years back. Thankfully the Fitterman, Hurney, Gettleman, Rhule and Reich days are behind us.

If we offer him an extension, it will be as an entrenched starting QB. He's not a Burrow or Allen and I don't think we should pay him like one. I still think Lawrence was overpaid for what he produced. Of those you mentioned, only Gettleman was a JR employee. The rest were all here under Tepper. I still see Tepper as the overall issue with our QB room. 

As far as the comparison between Cam and Bryce, two different QBs in 2 different decades. The key difference between the 2 being, Cam only cost a first. Bryce cost 2 1sts, 2 2nds and Moore. We could afford to miss on Cam, we couldn't with Bryce and so far, we have. 

[strato]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If you plug Bryce onto the Pro Bowl roster you might have a chance to compete for a SB. If he's surrounded by top tier talent with a top tier defense on the other side, a field flipping punter, and a kicker good from 60+ you might have a chance

That is what was posted.

Nowhere does it say can’t.

It says The Pro Bowl roster. Not an offense with two or three pro bowlers on it. Who I am not sure all made the pro bowl in Cam’s rookie year or did not. Maybe a different year. I sort of doubt they all did that year.  
 

Let’s be accurate. 

Edited 6 hours ago by strato

[cranky]

48 minutes ago, strato said:

That is what was posted.

Nowhere does it say can’t.

It says The Pro Bowl roster. Not an offense with two or three pro bowlers on it. Who I am not sure all made the pro bowl in Cam’s rookie year or did not. Maybe a different year. I sort of doubt they all did that year.  
 

Let’s be accurate. 

Ok...let's be accurate. Here is the complete paragraph.

"If you plug Bryce onto the Pro Bowl roster you might have a chance to compete for a SB. If he's surrounded by top tier talent with a top tier defense on the other side, a field flipping punter, and a kicker good from 60+ you might have a chance. But that means you basically have to recreate Saban's Bama in the NFL and that's impossible... and Bryce couldn't win a championship in that environment either."

Two or three? There were 2 pro bowlers on the OL, a TE pro bowler (Olsen) and a running back pro bowler (Stewart) so that's 4 on offense alone - not 2 or 3. On defense you had Short, Davis, Kuechly and Norman all pro bowlers. Thats' 8 starting pro bowlers on the 2015 roster. So yeah, I would say that was a pro bowl roster.

So yes, please, let's be accurate.

[cranky]

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

If we offer him an extension, it will be as an entrenched starting QB. He's not a Burrow or Allen and I don't think we should pay him like one. I still think Lawrence was overpaid for what he produced. Of those you mentioned, only Gettleman was a JR employee. The rest were all here under Tepper. I still see Tepper as the overall issue with our QB room. 

As far as the comparison between Cam and Bryce, two different QBs in 2 different decades. The key difference between the 2 being, Cam only cost a first. Bryce cost 2 1sts, 2 2nds and Moore. We could afford to miss on Cam, we couldn't with Bryce and so far, we have. 

Lawrence was way overpaid. 

True about QB comparisons. I was just pointing out having a pro bowl roster doesn't mean a QB is a failure if they don't win it all.

[strato]

39 minutes ago, cranky said:

Ok...let's be accurate. Here is the complete paragraph.

"If you plug Bryce onto the Pro Bowl roster you might have a chance to compete for a SB. If he's surrounded by top tier talent with a top tier defense on the other side, a field flipping punter, and a kicker good from 60+ you might have a chance. But that means you basically have to recreate Saban's Bama in the NFL and that's impossible... and Bryce couldn't win a championship in that environment either."

Two or three? There were 2 pro bowlers on the OL, a TE pro bowler (Olsen) and a running back pro bowler (Stewart) so that's 4 on offense alone - not 2 or 3. On defense you had Short, Davis, Kuechly and Norman all pro bowlers. Thats' 8 starting pro bowlers on the 2015 roster. So yeah, I would say that was a pro bowl roster.

So yes, please, let's be accurate.

I see. Okay you are out of context there, It isn’t referring to the NFL, maybe read it again. To me it clearly reads to mean he couldn’t win a NC with Alabama. “In that environment” is referring to college/Alabama.  
 

yes it says recreate Saban’s Bama in the NFL but the reference about not winning refers to the NC game he lost. 

Edited 4 hours ago by strato