Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder under center

[Panthro]

And then we'll all hop in our flying cars that have no carbon footprint and head come to our busty supermodel wives for some hot sex before we go in the backyard and take a ride around the lake on our dolphins with lasers on their heads

[ncmonzta]

And then we'll all hop in our flying cars that have no carbon footprint and head come to our busty supermodel wives for some hot sex before we go in the backyard and take a ride around the lake on our dolphins with lasers on their heads

[Urrymonster]

People seem to forget that in his 4 year career Young was a 2 time probowler and twice came in and went on winning streaks of 6 or more games. He fought with the head coach and was psychologically fragile. By all accounts Newton is definitely not. If Newton can come in and play like Young without being nuts, he would be a huge pickup for us.

Now the times that we have got into discussions over QBs, you have always fallen back to two things. TDs trump all and the ratio of interceptions to TDs plays a big factor as well.

Young took until his 4th year before he had a season where he threw more TDs than Ints and after 5 years he has thrown equal amounts.

What people forget about him, is that he has averaged just 29 yards rushing per start, so its less than that per game. Forgive me if I am wrong, but Cam and Vince have very similar running styles and athletic ability?

So even if Cam can double Young's production on the ground, he still is going to be judged on his ability to throw, as the occassional big game with his legs won't stop teams forcing him to throw.

[Stumpy]

What are you laughing at he's right to an exstent. Missouri's spread pass all day offense made chase Daniels look all world. He competed for the hiseman while gabbert looked average. In a offense that passes 70% of the time, his production is alarming.

You do understand that offenses change based on personnel don't you? When Daniels was there, they had a great receiving corps, so they passed a lot. In fact, in Gabbert's two years starting, their pass/run ratio looked more like this...

2010: 490/439 = 52.7%

2009: 467/444 = 51.3%

Total: 957/883 = 52%

So he put up 3000+ yds a year in an offense that only passed barely over half the time.

[panthers55]

Now the times that we have got into discussions over QBs, you have always fallen back to two things. TDs trump all and the ratio of interceptions to TDs plays a big factor as well.

Young took until his 4th year before he had a season where he threw more TDs than Ints and after 5 years he has thrown equal amounts.

What people forget about him, is that he has averaged just 29 yards rushing per start, so its less than that per game. Forgive me if I am wrong, but Cam and Vince have very similar running styles and athletic ability?

So even if Cam can double Young's production on the ground, he still is going to be judged on his ability to throw, as the occassional big game with his legs won't stop teams forcing him to throw.

No doubt that Young suffered some of the same problems that befall all rookie quarterbacks and will likely be the same for Newton. I surely wouldn't be expect him to come in and star right away. That would be foolhardy.

Part of what Young did do was win despite his mistakes and he often made some great plays to make up for the boneheaded ones.

Newton is considered a better athlete than Young with a better deep ball. How that translates to the NFl remains to be seen. But i would agree with you that he will have to use his arm and not his legs to win games. Given all the work he continues to do in the offseason to improve his footwork and timing, I think he is well aware of that as well.

[panthers55]

You do understand that offenses change based on personnel don't you? When Daniels was there, they had a great receiving corps, so they passed a lot. In fact, in Gabbert's two years starting, their pass/run ratio looked more like this...

2010: 490/439 = 52.7%

2009: 467/444 = 51.3%

Total: 957/883 = 52%

So he put up 3000+ yds a year in an offense that only passed barely over half the time.

What is most interesting about those stats to me is not the run/pass ratio but the fact he still threw so many passes. He couldn't have that bad of a receivng corps. That is more than many teams threw the ball. Missouri only averaged about 9 more passes a game under Daniels than they did with Gabbert( 100 more attempts per season-565 total). So if he threw it a lot so did Gabbert. Daniel's team in 2008 also ran 417 times so his ratio of pass to run was around 57%. More for sure but not that big of a difference.

[mav1234]

well. I mean... Though Chase Daniel was good and all, he had 4 receiving options between 2007 and 2008 on his team that are now in the NFL...

Danario Alexander, Jeremy Maclin, Chase Coffman, Martin Rucker..

now not all of them are that great but still. they were huge contributors.

I like TJ Moe, but... well, he's not the best receiving prospect ever, and he certainly was Missouri's best receiver.

anyway, Gabbert's numbers weren't very good regardless. *shrugs* you don't draft a guy for his numbers...

[Stumpy]

What is most interesting about those stats to me is not the run/pass ratio but the fact he still threw so many passes. He couldn't have that bad of a receivng corps. That is more than many teams threw the ball. Missouri only averaged about 9 more passes a game under Daniels than they did with Gabbert( 100 more attempts per season-565 total). So if he threw it a lot so did Gabbert. Daniel's team in 2008 also ran 417 times so his ratio of pass to run was around 57%. More for sure but not that big of a difference.

Without having seen any Missouri games, that would seem to indicate that their offense was more productive in Gabbert's tenure.

Either way, there are some very concerning knocks on him, poor pocket presence and suspect judgment, among others. But the misconception that he was produced less in the same offense as Chase is BS.

And just to be clear, I don't want to draft him either. But if someone wants to argue against him, at least make a valid argument.

[panthers55]

Without having seen any Missouri games, that would seem to indicate that their offense was more productive in Gabbert's tenure.

Either way, there are some very concerning knocks on him, poor pocket presence and suspect judgment, among others. But the misconception that he was produced less in the same offense as Chase is BS.

And just to be clear, I don't want to draft him either. But if someone wants to argue against him, at least make a valid argument.

He threw a lot of passes but completed much fewer than Daniels and had over a 1000 yards less passing thier last years. It was less productive but it wasn't for a lack of trying.

[Stumpy]

He threw a lot of passes but completed much fewer than Daniels and had over a 1000 yards less passing thier last years. It was less productive but it wasn't for a lack of trying.

My statement was a little convoluted, but what I was saying was that the offense, not the QB, was more productive. Virtually same number of passes, but much less of a percentage means there were more offensive plays overall.