Can someone shed some light on this idea that Newton is dumb?

[SmootsDaddy89]

actually the questions about ryan mallett's intelligence went much deeper than the way he talked. it was how he acted around coaches and other students. It was things he said and ways he acted. He just didn't present himself well at all.

Isn't that more related to him coming off like a big douche in interviews and having a huge ego, even around his coaches? You could argue that it's dumb to be a egotistical douche, but I don't think anyone questioned whether he had football intelligence.

[raleigh-panther]

Whoever said its the way he speaks is dead on imo

/QUOTE]

Thanks Beach.

I like Cam a lot...even more as I learn about him. He has potential greatness in him. Its hard to define greatness, but, I think we all know it when we see it. It's there. If he works hard, he'll obtain it.

QBs are in front on the camera all the time. They are interviewed by sports journalists and journalists have supposedly had a lot of grammar and writing classes.

There are people on this board, a message board mind you, correcting grammar and spelling all the time and imply stupidity for not doing either well. How do you think those same people would view a QB who can't use the correct tense of a verb to save his soul?

On the bright side, if he wins games, his miscues will be overlooked.

[sdot353]

http:www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blog/abraham/detail?entry_id=87757

[sdot353]

http://www.youtube.com/user/zennie62#p/search/2/iwmBrwKV9_I

[davos]

On the bright side, if he wins games, his miscues will be overlooked.

Exactly.

That's also why this discussion is stupid

[KJDaniel31]

Exactly.

Why still evasive?

[Marguide]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Jake Locker in this discussion. Has anyone questioned his intelligence? He scored below Newton on the Wonderlic and has consistently made some boneheaded decisions on the field.

So if people don't question Locker's intelligence at least to the extent they question Cam's, you have to ask yourself why?

I think I know the answer to this question but surely all of you are intelligent enough to figure it out on your own.

[jherald]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Jake Locker in this discussion. Has anyone questioned his intelligence? He scored below Newton on the Wonderlic and has consistently made some boneheaded decisions on the field.

So if people don't question Locker's intelligence at least to the extent they question Cam's, you have to ask yourself why?

I think I know the answer to this question but surely all of you are intelligent enough to figure it out on your own.

Hmmm... Interesting.

[Panthers128]

he stole another student's paper and turned it in and then purchased another paper off the internet and turned it in. i'm not saying he's "dumb" but i don't know any smart people that have done that.

okay, i take it back. that poo is dumb.

This.

There might be a race issue in some cases, but when you conduct yourself the way Cam Newton has, the race issue is thrown out the window.

I don't care if you're an albino, there's only so much people will look past.

[KJDaniel31]

LOL. The ol' "White guy wuz hated on too therefore race no matter!!1!!111" For the 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 time saying race plays a part in the perception of a QB does not mean it is a criticism ONLY attributed to black QBs . It means that black QBs inherently have to do more to prove their intelligence than a white QB does.

Which I'm not sure is true anymore. This isn't "Glory Road" in the 1950's...I didn't hear anyone question Donovan McNabb (i believe he scored pretty low too) or Byron Leftwich's intelligence, nor guys like Prince or Myron Rolle. Are there racists out there? Sure, and you would be a liar if you didn't admit there are blacks who are racist as well. Isn't it a bit sensationalistic to act as if it's the majority in either case? Maybe, people just have an honest opinion?

That is why it is a perceived slight to say a black person is articulate. It is indeed a compliment but many times people look at it as if you are saying "Wow. You are black, I totally didn't expect you to be well spoken. Congratulations!!"

I'm never surprised to see a decently presented person speak intelligently. I am always surprised when a poorly presented person does. I've very surprised when I see a tatted up white man in a white tank top missing teeth and snuff in his lip speak intelligently. Aren't you?

Yeah Ryan Mallet was questioned about his intelligence. Does anyone remember the criticism that leaked saying he had too mush street in his voice?? In other words he sounded a little too black for some GMs liking, therefore he must be dumb.

Maybe he just sounded dumb? Why is this possibility not mentioned?

Meanwhile, last year Colt McCoy who also scored an average wonderlic score and sounds like a country bumpkin; rarely if ever had his intelligence questioned and when he did it wasn't even close to the amount of verocity as Cam Newton has been.

Colt presents himself pretty well....much like many other educated people do. However, I specifically remember MAJOR questions of the intelligence of Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Jeff George, and Ryan Leaf, all for good cause. Maybe, just maybe, MOST people have an honest opinion about things that arent a direct result of race?

So please stop acting like this is all in people's heads. It may not be true but it is completely appropriate to pose the question.

Except it's become the opinion of many that this card is grossly overplayed. I have yet to see a single negative opinion direct toward a black athlete on this board NOT be answered with the race card. Why wouldn't an honest person see this as a smokescreen? Dirk Nowitzki is my favorite basketball player...and he is often criticized for his lack of athleticism...it has nothing to do with race. Fact is, he is SLOW! How ridiculous would you think it is if I answered every "he's too slow" comment directed towards a white athlete with an unhinged cry of racism?

The evasive tactics of many around here don't seem to help much either.

[KJDaniel31]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Jake Locker in this discussion. Has anyone questioned his intelligence? He scored below Newton on the Wonderlic and has consistently made some boneheaded decisions on the field.

So if people don't question Locker's intelligence at least to the extent they question Cam's, you have to ask yourself why?

I think I know the answer to this question but surely all of you are intelligent enough to figure it out on your own.

I recall several articles, and several people I talked to question his intelligence. I think very highly of Locker, so I probably had more conversations about him than most people did.

[Mr. Scot]

Scot, this thread was about whether Cam Newton is "dumb", as in, not intelligent. I think the intended point of discussion was whether there is reason to believe he's stupid, beyond character issues. And more to the point, people confusing (perceived) character issues with lack of intelligence. And I'm sorry to break it to you, race factors in there.

So can you point me to all the people suggesting that Colin Kaepernick is dumb?

If it's all racial, then it should be the same people, right?

Heck, ask folks what they think of Tony Dungy, because I've seen the utter silliness of people who lobbied for Tony Dungy to be the next head coach being accused of racist thinking for having negative opinions about Cam Newton.

Yes, racism exists, and it's stupid.

Assuming that a negative opinion of someone who happens to be black shows that someone is racist is equally stupid.

[teeray]

Which I'm not sure is true anymore. This isn't "Glory Road" in the 1950's...I didn't hear anyone question Donovan McNabb (i believe he scored pretty low too) or Byron Leftwich's intelligence, nor guys like Prince or Myron Rolle. Are there racists out there? Sure, and you would be a liar if you didn't admit there are blacks who are racist as well. Isn't it a bit sensationalistic to act as if it's the majority in either case? Maybe, people just have an honest opinion?

Except that Jamarcus Russell, Mike Vick, Josh Freeman, Steve McNair, Daunte Culpepper, Cam Newton, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Akili Smith, and, actually yes, Donovan McNabb who scored a 14 on the wonderlic all had their intelligence questioned going into the draft.

In other words every black QB drafted in the first round the last 10 or 11 years with the exception of Byron Leftwich (that I can remember) at some point had people questioning their intelligence outright or with the phraseology of "there ability to learn a pro offense" or "ability to read NFL defenses" was at some point in the draft process one of the major questions of all these QB on some people's scouting reports. Seems like an abnormally high number of black QBs that got their intelligence questioned compared to white first round QBs no? That is 10 of the last 11 QBs that were black and highly rated that this was a "concern" for.

I'm never surprised to see a decently presented person speak intelligently. I am always surprised when a poorly presented person does. I've very surprised when I see a tatted up white man in a white tank top missing teeth and snuff in his lip speak intelligently. Aren't you?

No. I don't prejudge people based on their appearance. I have held jobs from one of the worst manual labor jobs around (old school waterproofing of houses when I was in high school to stay in shape for b-ball) to a job at the NCGA where I was in meetings daily with Senators and Representatives. Nothing surprises me in terms of where you find intelligent people and what they look like.

BTW isn't it pretty ironic that you pretty much just said that you judge people before you ever meet them by how they look. :lol:

Maybe he just sounded dumb? Why is this possibility not mentioned?

This is kinda my point. What constitutes what dumb sounds like?? The exact wording of the leak was that he had too much street in his voice. I wasn't in any meetings but I did see the Gruden QB camp and when he was talking football he did just as well as Gabbert or anyone else IMO.

Colt presents himself pretty well....much like many other educated people do. However, I specifically remember MAJOR questions of the intelligence of Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Jeff George, and Ryan Leaf, all for good cause. Maybe, just maybe, MOST people have an honest opinion about things that arent a direct result of race?

That is an impressive list. Compare it on a percentage basis of the white QBs taken in the first round and the black QBs taken in the first round. If you can hit 91% like the 10/11 black QBs let me know.

Colt carries himself fine. So does Cam Newton. That is my point.

Except it's become the opinion of many that this card is grossly overplayed. I have yet to see a single negative opinion direct toward a black athlete on this board NOT be answered with the race card. Why wouldn't an honest person see this as a smokescreen? Dirk Nowitzki is my favorite basketball player...and he is often criticized for his lack of athleticism...it has nothing to do with race. Fact is, he is SLOW! How ridiculous would you think it is if I answered every "he's too slow" comment directed towards a white athlete with an unhinged cry of racism?

The evasive tactics of many around here don't seem to help much either.

That "many" I am sure are 95% people who have never had the face the realities of racial stereotyping in their everyday lives (if you are white like me please do not try to say that you do you will sound even more stupid). I am white so I can't say that I have either. But when I played basketball in college I saw the manner in which many of my teammates were treated on an everyday basis. And you guys that blindly walk around life thinking this poo doesn't exist are naive or blind.

I also want to make clear that I am not talking about outright racism. This is usually a subconscious thing that isn't based in fact but perception. I don't think people who question their intelligence are going to Klan meetings after work. But it is something that is real.

[Mr. Scot]

Except for Jamarcus Russell, Mike Vick, Josh Freeman, Steve McNair, Daunte Culpepper, Cam Newton, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Akili Smith, and, actually yes, Donovan McNabb who scored a 14 on the wonderlic all had their intelligence questioned going into the draft.

In other words every black QB drafted in the first round with the exception of Byron Leftwich at some point had people questioning their intelligence outright or with the phraseology of "there ability to learn a pro offense" or "ability to read NFL defenses" was at some point in the draft process one of the major questions of all these QB on some people's scouting reports. Seems like an abnormally high number of black QBs that got their intelligence questioned compared to white first round QBs no?

How many of those guys came out of pro style systems in college?

Every quarterback - black or white - that comes out of a non-traditional system is going to have those questions asked, including guys like Ben Roethlisberger and Blaine Gabbert. Guys like Chase Daniel and Graham Harrell wound up passed over as much for those concerns as anything else.

Gabbert was asked about the transition to a pro-style offense by Jon Gruden, and he answered pretty well. Newton got asked the same kind of question and answered back with "uuuummm...wow...you're kind of putting me on the spot."

Does that mean Gabbert will be a better pro than Newton? No, but to argue that Gabbert didn't look better in that aspect of the interview than Newton did is silly. We have to hope that was an aberration and not the shape of things to come (we'll see in time).

For my part, I care way more about who makes the right decisions on the field than I do who sounds good in a press conference. Tom Brady sounds like a slow-witted dullard when he talks in pressers, but he does the job on the field. If I wanted a guy who could give The King's Speech, I'd lobby for Greg McElroy, but there's more to quarterbacking than that.