What does Cam have to do

[KJDaniel31]

The simple fact that you have whittled your way all the way back to "only pass run ratio matters" undermines your entire point to you argument to the extent that it is now laughable.

I made a huge mistake assuming you understood that Pass attempts lead to pass yards, and rush attempts lead to rush yards. Do you really struggle with this concept?

"Yeah... yeah... but even though he passed for 3,000 yards and 30 tds it doesn't matter bc his pass/run ratio is too high so therefore I will put him in the running QB box."

So you think just because he threw for 3,000 yards that he should not be in the "running QB" box? Vince threw for 3,000 in his SR year; how did that work out?

I'm not sure why you are sinking to this level. Is it really that difficult to admit that no one with skills OR stats OR history like Cam has ever succeeded in the NFL?

[TheRealDeal]

Teeray, after all the hype, all the claims, all the support for Cam, all the college stats you've cited since you joined, what would be a successful rookie campaign?

I ask you because I have a smidgen of respect for you...don't lowball it and ruin that

[mav1234]

if auburn's offense without cam newton was so bad, how did they have the #2 offense in the sec the year before? im pretty sure they still averaged over 430 yards per game but I may be wrong. the reality is Cam came into an explosive offense and made it better.

washington without locker... yeah, there's not even any point.

[teeray]

What have I argued other than "how much a guy ran" vs "how much he threw"? There are MANY aspects to this discussion, but the fact remains: QB's who's college stats looked anything like Cam Newton's have never succeeded in the NFL.

I am still waiting for ANYTHING resembling a reasonable argument to the contrary from you! You keep giving me guys who threw 3 and 4 times as much as they ran, while we are discussing a guy who ran nearly the same amount! Of course he will throw for more yards, virtually all of NCAA averages more yards per pass than yards per run.

Actually what you said was find me a guy with half his rushing yardage that was successful. Then when I did that you backpedaled into this new completely ridiculous argument about something about pass/run ratios.

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

Why the Bradford comparisons all the sudden? Bradford benefited from being in probably the worst divisions ever in the history of the NFL last year. Cam is the toughest division in the NFL, no way he comes close to Bradford's numbers. Be nice but it won't happen.

Bradford didn't have the weapons that Cam does.

[KJDaniel31]

You mean the superior talent that had no drafted or projected to be drafted at this point wide receivers and whose leading receiver is a guy that won't make the Panthers roster. A team desperate for receivers. Right :thumbsup: :lol:

Locker had who?? Jermaine Kearse?? Who is that? Oh a projected first or second round pick at wide receiver.

:lol: Tell me again about all the talent Locker did not have as pass receivers

You are really struggling here....the desperation is obvious

Finally, I am wrong on something. As of the end of the season, (surprised that his stock went up in the off season?!) when I did this search, Washington had no players ranked in the top 25 at their position on any site I found. It appears that has changed, and Kearse's stock has gone up. I found 3 sites which project him in the 3rd, so I'm not sure where the 1st round came from.

See, it's not so hard to admit when you are wrong. Sometimes things change after you actually research what you are saying!

[KJDaniel31]

Actually what you said was find me a guy with half his rushing yardage that was successful. Then when I did that you backpedaled into this new completely ridiculous argument about something about pass/run ratios.

Except I didn't backpedal.....I showed you how even that one stat (by the way, how many teeth did I have to pull to get you to even name a player by the above standards?) you still dont come close to Cam's stats. I all but begged you for a player anywhere near Cam - I have to go so far as to ask for someone with HALF his rushing totals - and when you FINALLY have the stones to name someone, he:

1. Was drafted over 15 years ago

2. Threw 4 times as much as he ran in college

3. Never won a Super Bowl

You seem just too smart to me to honestly feel that this path of logic you are on makes any sense.

Are you claiming that Steve McNair's college career was anything like Cam's, or that his skills were anywhere near Cam's?

[ncmonzta]

Finally, I am wrong on something. As of the end of the season, (surprised that his stock went up in the off season?!) when I did this search, Washington had no players ranked in the top 25 at their position on any site I found. It appears that has changed, and Kearse's stock has gone up. I found 3 sites which project him in the 3rd, so I'm not sure where the 1st round came from.

See, it's not so hard to admit when you are wrong. Sometimes things change after you actually research what you are saying!

Question. How many QB's in college history had the stats and success Newton had?

[teeray]

I made a huge mistake assuming you understood that Pass attempts lead to pass yards, and rush attempts lead to rush yards. Do you really struggle with this concept?

So you think just because he threw for 3,000 yards that he should not be in the "running QB" box? Vince threw for 3,000 in his SR year; how did that work out?

I'm not sure why you are sinking to this level. Is it really that difficult to admit that no one with skills OR stats OR history like Cam has ever succeeded in the NFL?

Not sure what you meant in your first paragraph. My point is if you had a guy that threw the ball 20 times a game for 3,000 yards and 30 tds I find it stupid to try to claim that he was strictly a running QB no matter what the pass/ratio is.

Then again I find it stupid to try to categorize football players into different little boxes to try to help me figure out if he will be a good football player. I prefer to judge each player on his own merits and abilities.

You keep talking about his skills in history. So I guess I would ask you, "What QB that has similar pass/run ratio (since that is what you like) has been drafted in the top 10?? Because it appears that very few people with that kind of ratio had the type of skill set to allow them to be drafted that high so there may not even be a precedent.

As far as Vince Young goes, that is a guy that has mental issues that got him booted. He went to two pro bowls and his win percentage was pretty damn good.

[Marguide]

I am still waiting for the discussion on Locker's passing stats, and why that makes him a better pro prospect....

Zzzzzzzzzz.

[Mr. Scot]

Yeah wins are important, but in January if you can say that Cam is better than he was 17 weeks ago then it was a good season.

Pretty much.

Don't care about our record this year as long as we see improvement. Likewise, fine with me ifNewton never takes a snap this year as long as he's ready for next year.

[KJDaniel31]

You are doing a really good job of talking yourself into a box from which you cannot escape.

Shall we talk about the results of Lockers higher pass attempts?

So because Cam ran more than Locker and yet still put up far better passing numbers than Locker in spite of doing less passing, he is somehow a worse prospect?

Keep it going. This is getting good.

In the end, that isn't what I am focusing on here, but rather that Cam has just above zero chance to be a successful NFL QB. Locker at least has a reasonable chance.

I believe Jake Locker is a better prospect than Cam. It has very little to do with yards per pass or yards per run. Cam's ELITE at both of those, much like Vince Young was.

How did that work for him? Was Vince a good prospect at QB because he had good college stats? His stats were WAY better than Matt Cassel's. What did that mean?

My argument this whole time has several points...but those here seem intent to pick one and claim I am standing on that ONE part....I suspect that is because it really is embarrassing to try to defend the point that Cam is anything like Big Ben, Josh Freeman, Steve McNair, or Steve Young as opposed to Vince Young, The Golden Calf of Bristol and Pat White.

[KJDaniel31]

if auburn's offense without cam newton was so bad, how did they have the #2 offense in the sec the year before? im pretty sure they still averaged over 430 yards per game but I may be wrong. the reality is Cam came into an explosive offense and made it better.

washington without locker... yeah, there's not even any point.

They went WINLESS without him his Soph year!

[teeray]

Except I didn't backpedal.....I showed you how even that one stat (by the way, how many teeth did I have to pull to get you to even name a player by the above standards?) you still dont come close to Cam's stats. I all but begged you for a player anywhere near Cam - I have to go so far as to ask for someone with HALF his rushing totals - and when you FINALLY have the stones to name someone, he:

1. Was drafted over 15 years ago

2. Threw 4 times as much as he ran in college

3. Never won a Super Bowl

You seem just too smart to me to honestly feel that this path of logic you are on makes any sense.

Are you claiming that Steve McNair's college career was anything like Cam's, or that his skills were anywhere near Cam's?

Well.. as I have said over and over again. I think trying to put people into boxes and categorize them to simplify things for myself is foolish.

No I don't think Cam and Steve McNair are the same person. That would be stupid. Every player is it's own entity. Plus, I don't judge QBs soley on stats of any kind. Even passing stats. No matter how high his rushing stats are it really doesn't matter. I judge them on their skill set.