The Forgotten Man

[Mr. Scot]

In most offseasons since Jake Delhomme has been the Panthers starting quarterback, his detractors have spent significant amounts of time online opining that the team needed to either bench or cut him. Suggested scenarios for his replacement have run the gamut from moderately plausible to Maddenesque fantasy. Many have ignored the fact that fan opinion plays no part whatsoever in team decision making. Some have even gone so far as to make the utterly ridiculous suggestion that it should.

This year there's more venom than usual because of Delhomme's awful season-ending playoff disaster. It's bolstered the hopes of the "anyone but Delhomme" crowd that the Panthers might finally make a move. Again though, some of the moves being suggested are well outside the realm of reason.

Commonly ignored in the discussion are the oft-repeated tidbits about the Panthers braintrust, i.e. that they don't ascribe to the "franchise quarterback" model and that they think it takes too long to develop rookies. Scenarios are suggested, attached either to hope that "maybe they'll change their minds" or an idea of "I don't care if that's what they say; it's what I think they ought to do". Naturally, everyone has a right to their opinion; but if you really think it matters in the big picture, think again.

More realistic discussion has centered around the type of player that the Panther front office has traditionally gravitated toward at the quarterback position, mid-range veterans who don't command a huge price and who aren't expecting to carry the team on their shoulders. Indeed, there are players of this type available, though no one that's appreciably better than the quarterbacks that are already on roster.

All of which brings me to my subject.

While I truly don't believe that the team has it in their plans to replace Jake Delhomme this season, I certainly do allow for the possibility.

And if this were to happen, I think the most realistic scenario for his replacement is a fellow practically nobody is talking about.

Josh McCown.

It seems fairly clear from prior discussion that the Matt Moore bandwagon has its fair share of passengers. Like Delhomme, Moore also has his detractors. The McCown bandwagon, however, is largely devoid of both yeasayers and naysayers. Most seem instead to consider McCown an afterthought in the discussion of potential starters.

To which I say, not so fast.

It's worth remembering that John Fox and Marty Hurney have long been McCown fans, pursuing him in more than one offseason but failing to land him until this past year. Also worthy of note is the fact that McCown fits very well into the kind of profile John Fox prefers in a signal caller (veteran, gunslinger, reasonably priced, etc). Realistically, McCown is Delhomme the sequel, with Matt Moore being Delhomme of the future.

Some have rightly pointed out that McCown is no youngster in the football world. He'll turn 30 on Independence Day. Delhomme is 34, and he's been the Panthers starter for six years, or since he was 28. Thus, McCown is only two years older than Delhomme was when the Panthers first handed him the keys to the car. Not only is that not a huge difference, but it could be argued that it puts him in the age range where the team likes their QB leader to reside.

Once again, when you get right down to it, I believe - to the chagrin of his detractors - that the team will stick behind Jake Delhomme for at least another year. The coaches like and trust him. His teammates like and respect him. He knows the system and he's a proven winner. One bad playoff game isn't necessarily enough to just forget all those factors. But if, for whatever reason, the team pulls a surprise move and lets Delhomme go, don't be surprised if the man they put in the driver's seat is a guy no one expected.

Like any pro quarterback, McCown has his fans and his critics. Few acknowledge the possibility that he could be the Panthers starter, believing instead that the team will bypass him for Matt Moore. Realistically, that could happen. Of course, prior to his elevation, not many foresaw the coming of the Jake Delhomme era either. Back in those days, Chris Weinke was considered the Golden Boy of the Future. A solid portion of the fanbase thought that Delhomme would be no more than veteran insurance or, at most, a stopgap while Weinke was developed into the eventual starter.

Those feelings parallel the way fans today look at Matt Moore and Josh McCown.

And again, they may be right.

But could lightning strike twice and another older, slightly used, journeyman veteran gunslinger with little to no hype behind him wind up being anointed as the man trusted to lead the team to the Super Bowl?

You never know.

[ncguy2184]

i hope not

[jpniner]

I thought this was going to be a thread on Amity Shales brilliant book

[Fox007]

Yea which is why it is no surprise that just about the same people who want Delhomme gone want Fox gone.

Not having a franchise QB model is pretty stupid, the only teams to win SB's in the recent years under that had top flight defenses in the Ravens and Bucs.

Yea whats our defense look like?

So Jake isn't even the main problem.

The not having a franchise QB model is fail, prove to me that it isn't please.........

Go back as far as 1989 or 88 and you can count on one hand the number of none franchise QB's to have won the SB.

[Fireball77]

What do you mean by recent years because I would say pretty much every SB winner in the past that I can think of had a defense that either was great all year or turned it on in the playoffs.

I think we have different definitions of "Franchise QB" though which may be part of the issue.

[rayzor]

great post.

i have been thinking for quite a while about the similarities between mccown and jake. mccown really fits the mold of what the panthers want and could do well, imo, if something happened and jake didn't finish next year for some reason.

i don't know that there is going to be any serious competition for the starting gig ( i don't know that there even needs to be right now for continuity's sake) but i like who we have waiting behind jake. jake is the immediate solution, mccown is the short term solution, moore is the long term solution.

not to turn this into a pat white thread, but i could see him coming in not as the intended heir to the helm, but as a serious and immediate contributor who can be one for a long time. having him in the backfield with whoever is our 'QB' could make our offense pretty scary.

not sure we should be spending our picks on much more than defense but he is one offensive player who would play well with jake/mccown/or moore.

[mantal]

yea which is why it is no surprise that just about the same people who want delhomme gone want fox gone.

Not having a franchise qb model is pretty stupid, the only teams to win sb's in the recent years under that had top flight defenses in the ravens and bucs.

Yea whats our defense look like?

So jake isn't even the main problem.

the not having a franchise qb model is fail, prove to me that it isn't please.........

Go back as far as 1989 or 88 and you can count on one hand the number of none franchise qb's to have won the sb.

2001, 2003...

[rayzor]

What do you mean by recent years because I would say pretty much every SB winner in the past that I can think of had a defense that either was great all year or turned it on in the playoffs.

I think we have different definitions of "Franchise QB" though which may be part of the issue.

this is a good point...

what would make a "franchise QB?"

I don't want examples....what makes one a franchise QB?

is it someone that the franchise is built around?

is it someone that the franchise commits to for the long haul?

if it is...what is the long haul? 5 years? 10 years?

[Fox007]

What do you mean by recent years because I would say pretty much every SB winner in the past that I can think of had a defense that either was great all year or turned it on in the playoffs.

I think we have different definitions of "Franchise QB" though which may be part of the issue.

You know exactly what I am talking about, defenses that all but literally win the game for you, such as the examples I put.

You are right though it's no coincidence that teams that have longevity at QB/elite QB's also have good teams and decent to good defenses.(they know what they are doing)

2001, 2003...

Yea I put that.......why would you reiterate what I already put?

Unless you are a fan of taking the harder way to winning the SB, and really want to rely on one aspect of your team to win the big one.

[scpanther22]

what i rem is that before matt moore got hurt fox was going to let him be the back up i think that says a lot about what the team thinks of moore

[mantal]

Yea I put that.......why would you reiterate what I already put?

Unless you are a fan of taking the harder way to winning the SB, and really want to rely on one aspect of your team to win the big one.

So I gotta go all the way back to prove you wrong? Not worth the effort, you win...

[Fox007]

this is a good point...

what would make a "franchise QB?"

I don't want examples....what makes one a franchise QB?

is it someone that the franchise is built around?

is it someone that the franchise commits to for the long haul?

if it is...what is the long haul? 5 years? 10 years?

It's because of these examples that you don't want, that they came up with the term in the first place I'd wager.

So obviously you have to be a winner/big winner, and not necessarily have to win the SB, but contend for it.(like Jim Kelly)

And yes someone(who is usually drafted by yourself) to build your franchise around.

Yes long haul.

I think Jake would be considered one if we could have landed him earlier, or if we actually strung together consecutive playoff appearances.(since until previously we made it far when we did make it).

First they start off as potential franchise QB's or ones you think will be one, there wouldn't even be the word bust if you didn't expect them to do great.

Just like there wouldn't be a franchise QB label if there were no busts.

I think the pick order has a lot to do with it via the media as well though, because that's where the pressure and expectation and hype comes from.

Most people outside of Carolina don't care about Weinke or wouldn't even call him a bust because no one cares about 4th round project QB's that don't make it.(if he would have made it, it would have been different)

But there is a reason you know about the Leafs, the Leinarts, and all the other busts people name frequently, if those were later round picks no one would be saying sh*t or care.

So even if you hate to admit it the pick,round, and media does play a part in it.

[Mr. Scot]

jake is the immediate solution, mccown is the short term solution, moore is the long term solution.

Pretty much how I feel.

not to turn this into a pat white thread, but i could see him coming in not as the intended heir to the helm, but as a serious and immediate contributor who can be one for a long time. having him in the backfield with whoever is our 'QB' could make our offense pretty scary.

not sure we should be spending our picks on much more than defense but he is one offensive player who would play well with jake/mccown/or moore.

I could see White being used the way the Seahawks used Seneca Wallace. The only drawback is that it might take a second rounder to snag White, and I really want our high picks (whatever we wind up having) to be spent on defense.

[Fireball77]

this is a good point...

what would make a "franchise QB?"

I don't want examples....what makes one a franchise QB?

is it someone that the franchise is built around?

is it someone that the franchise commits to for the long haul?

if it is...what is the long haul? 5 years? 10 years?

My guess based on what Fox007 is saying about with SBs is that he means a committing a first round draft choice (and the requisite dollars) to the position. I could wrong about that though.

To me, it mainly means drafting the guy high, committing the big dollars to his rookie contract (therefore de facto committing to the guy himself) and building high dollar on the offense around him so to me there is really only one in the entire NFL right now, Peyton Manning. And to me, the "franchise QB as the first rounder" thought isn't necessarily a POSITIVE thing considering the performances of the 1st round QBs in their playoff runs/SBs vs their non-franchise counterparts. My main beef as always is dollar value committed to performance received. And that prolific offense based teams doesn't win SBs..ever due to their offense...that I can think of (remember, the 99 Rams clinched theirs on a defensive stop..and Smith was the DC for a pretty decent defense that year). Heck, I'm betting it doesn't even make the playoffs as often as a team with a decent offense and a good to great defense.

Look at the FA QBs available now: Grossman, Leftwich , Boller, etc. etc...a grab bag of semi-recent first rounders. Of all the FA QBs available, the one whose career has been the best overall is Jeff Garcia, the undrafted guy.