Newton's Prototype

[chef17]

If that's the way you define "pin point accurate" then I submit it is not a good thing. If you are throwing to double coverage, you're not making a read somewhere else.

And even at that, how in the hell do you define "not pin point accurate" from one NFL game?

The comment is ridiculous. No, its absurd.

Coupled with his "Mike Shula got Cam ready" thread, his attitude about Cam from the start, you can't take what Scot says about Cam seriously. It's nothing but subjectivity and downplay on him as a player.

I agree you shouldn't consistently throw into double coverage, but if you know know you can make the throw, why not take it sometimes? And I don't think it was to downplay Cam. Again, I think the important part was that Cam doesn't need pinpoint accuracy to be successful. People constantly say Cam won't succeed because he isn't a passer like Brees, or Brady. The point was that Cam doesn't need to be. Favre was a winner, yet he was not known for pinpoint accuracy. You don't have to respect what Scot says, that is your right. I just think you are taking his comment out of context.

[csx]

I don't have to read the rest of your post. Because basing anything on preseason play is the #1 way to not look at a player correctly.

Where's my BS meter...

Oh, it broke on that line.

You obviously do. Else you wouldn't have started this thread.

And again... taking a shot at the loss... you must think you're smooth or something with the innuendos. Trust me, I'm not the only one who sees past em man. :rolleyes:

Unreal. I'm having to defend our NFL-Record breaking starter from "not pin point accurate" claims.

:rolleyes5::rolleyes5::rolleyes5:

You might just be a little bit oversensitive about all this don't you think? I mean really?....really? Even if he literally said "Cam Newton sucked yesterday".....who cares? Do you lose sleep over this?

[edromeo]

I don't. Never did. Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Steve McNair...all of these guys were/are capable passers who just also happen to be able to run.

Okay then my mistake I kinda lumped playmakers into your 'gunslinger' category.

And it seemed like you were saying that being a pin-point passer vs. a gunslinger was an either or proposition:

Newton's not a pinpoint accurate passer like a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady. And while he's young and coachable, I think it'd be a mistake to try to make him into one.

I guess it depends on your definition of pin-point passer vs gunslinger.

I think those term are not very clear as they could mean a lot of different things and I don't view them as opposites.

But back to your 'prototype' question:

I keep making the comparison between Newton and Flacco.

Because of the Coryell offense I tend to think of other strong armed Coryell offense QBs: from Dan Fouts to Aikman to Kurt Warner to Rivers to Flacco to Jay Cutler.

I think those QB are Newton's prototypes.

Except that Newton is more then his arm, a lot more.

There really hasn't been a QB like Newton before.

How many QBs rushed for a 1,000 yards in college and posses his elite arm talent?

Cam is Joe Flacco with a mix of Jay Cutler and WR type running ability.

[mav1234]

I don't think "pin point passer" and "gunslinger" are mutually exclusive at all... Re-reading the OP, I can see why some may have thought that was what Mr. Scot meant, but I didn't take it that way.

The way I took it was more "Cam can be great, and it doesn't require that he becomes the next Manning or Brady."

[jks85]

Quarterbacks that can pass but can't run are silver.

manning/brady are silver? tough crowd

[Verge]

[Mr. Scot]

You might just be a little bit oversensitive about all this don't you think? I mean really?....really? Even if he literally said "Cam Newton sucked yesterday".....who cares? Do you lose sleep over this?

Apparently :nonod:

My guess: Had I come in and said "Cam walks on water" the reaction I'd have gotten was "SO YOU'RE SAYING CAM CAN'T SWIM!" :sosp:

Hope this isn't an indicator of what it's going to be like this year is going to be like around here this year. I have little interest in debating people's persecution complexes.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't think "pin point passer" and "gunslinger" are mutually exclusive at all... Re-reading the OP, I can see why some may have thought that was what Mr. Scot meant, but I didn't take it that way.

The way I took it was more "Cam can be great, and it doesn't require that he becomes the next Manning or Brady."

Here's a couple of similar statements:

- Tim Couch is the same type of quarterback as Dan Marino.

- Kerry Collins has the same kind of player profile as Jim Kelly.

- Alex Smith is the same style of quarterback as Joe Montana.

- Jake Delhomme is a similar sort of quarterback to Brett Favre.

All of those statements are true. However, none of them implies that the players being compared are of equal ability. That's what some folks here can't seem to get.

[edromeo]

M.Scott-

No response to post #171?

[AUtiger]

None of them fit.

Cam's prototype? Cam Newton

No NFL QB has ever had the combination of his size, speed, ability, and leadership.

what he said...the leadership, it may be his biggest talent.

[Mr. Scot]

M.Scott-

No response to post #171?

Been busy watching an awful football game. Sorry.

Okay then my mistake I kinda lumped playmakers into your 'gunslinger' category.

And it seemed like you were saying that being a pin-point passer vs. a gunslinger was an either or proposition:

I guess it depends on your definition of pin-point passer vs gunslinger.

I think those term are not very clear as they could mean a lot of different things and I don't view them as opposites.

But back to your 'prototype' question:

I keep making the comparison between Newton and Flacco.

Because of the Coryell offense I tend to think of other strong armed Coryell offense QBs: from Dan Fouts to Aikman to Kurt Warner to Rivers to Flacco to Jay Cutler.

I think those QB are Newton's prototypes.

Except that Newton is more then his arm, a lot more.

There really hasn't been a QB like Newton before.

How many QBs rushed for a 1,000 yards in college and posses his elite arm talent?

Cam is Joe Flacco with a mix of Jay Cutler and WR type running ability.

I get the comparison, although admittedly I'm not as big a Flacco fan as others.

Wouldn't mind seeing Newton be as successful as Fouts on the stat sheet, as long as he's also more successful in the Super Bowl win column.

[Verge]

Scott, were you ever a qb or a qb coach? Not trying to contradict or insult you, just curious.

[panthers55]

i guess it's all in your interpretation of what a gunslinger is. i've always considered a gunslinger to be someone who will take risks, esp. on deep balls. they aren't reckless, but they sure don't play it safe. they will gamble but they have enough confidence in their ability and the players they throw to get the job done.

i have seen elements of that not just here, but at auburn. the thing is, he's able to keep it relatively mistake free so far. he's daring with what he does, but it pays off.

I think you can interpret it anyway you like but in general football parlance a gunslinger is considered a high risk, high reward approach with as many negative consequences as positive ones. It is most frequently applied to Favre for example when he throws 3 or 4 picks in a game not when he throws 5 TDs and no picks. It is a gambling style with reward and risk. They do take chances and are very confident in their ability sometimes to their benefit and just as often to their detriment.

For the record I am fine with a gunslinger if the alternate is a clausen or David Carr dump it off guy.

My issue is that I don't see the comparison to Newton at all. Just because he is confident in his deep ball doesn't mean he is a gunslinger at all. Most of the time gunslingers have a bunch of TDs and a bunch of Ints as well. They throw into double coverage often trying to squeeze the ball in. It isn't just confidence but willingness to take chances which are often unnecessary.

Newton didn't do that at Auburn and he didn't do it last Sunday. At Auburn he had 30 TDs and 7 Ints. Hardly the ratio of a gunslinger. Favre had some great years in the NFL but other years had as many Ints as TDs. The years he was most often labeled a gunslinger was when he threw the picks not when he threw all the TDs and only a few picks.

So far Newton has been cautious in his throws as far as double coverage and when he did throw into a crowd it was picked off. Lets see what he does with good coverage this week buut I think your definition and Mr Scot's definition are the problem. You might not think of the term as negative but in football parlance it generally is. And as far as it applying to Newton right now, it doesn't at all, positive or negative.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3276619

In the article which is a positive read on Favre notice how the gunslingerr reference was not a positive one. For those who define gunslinger as a leader who takes chances and is confidence in his ability, guys like Brees, Manning, and Brady are all confident, often throw into tiight windows and are very confident. They are considered great leaders and rally their teams. Are any of them defined as gunslingers?? No. Why not? They don't make ill advised throws that often, throw into double and triple coverage and their TDs often are much higher than their Ints. When Manning was a rookie he threw more picks than Tds but he stil wasn't a gunslinger, he was a rookie making miistakes.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3340_Blanda%3A_great_showman_and_the_original_gunslinger.html

Another one on George Blanda talking about the positive and negatives of a gunslinger.

Newton is not a gunslinger at all and if he gets into trouble he doesn't throw the pass, he runs the ball something Favre didn't do. Don't see the comparison at all. I don't see Newton taking chances or being reckless with the ball. His mistakes are errors in reading defenes, not overestimating his ability.

I will let it go as it isn't worth arguing for pages but suffice it to say that it is IMO a poor and inaccurate comparison which is perceived by the football world as much negatively as it is positively.

If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.