Could the Panthers pull off a 4-3/3-4 hybrid?

[Snake]

I would say yes and no at the same time. Yes we can run it No Fox want do it. Its just not his style although I would like to see it.

[Mr. Scot]

Gathering the right personnel group to effectively mix both wouldn't be an easy thing, and could be a nightmare if injury takes one of your key cogs out.

Most teams are capable of running occasional different sets, but a full blown hybrid? Not a fan of that idea.

[SorthNarolina]

We have been doing this for quite sometime now, but for some reason it isn't recognized by most for what ever reason.(mainly because we can't execute it....and maybe partly because of lack of football knowledge could be the rest)

It does take a special lineup to pull it off, and a commitment to it as well. We have the talent, and IMHO the upside of being able to line up either way is a huge advantage in throwing off offenses around the league. It's being done by several teams, and with success. Being committed to one type of defense is just to predictable(which we have been).

For example: you can't drop Pep into coverage(which makes it 3-4), and not send LB's, or a corner blitz in to rush the QB.

We've been going about it wrong, and if the kinks were to be worked out, it would be AWESOME.

Not only that, no matter what we run, contact at the line instead of playing off of receivers would help tremendously.

We aren't going about it "wrong" because fox is not trying to run a "hybrid" defense. He's running a base 4-3. What you see are different formations, packages, and plays out of this base defense. And when we drop peppers we certainly have other guys rushing.

I also wouldn't call the 4-3 predictable. Any base defense has so many variants it's impossible to call it predictable. However, the man holding the clipboard might be.

I've seen some plays when we have 7 men on the LOS and I couldn't tell who was coming. If the HB comes out of the backfield brayton would take him and diggs would blitz...just about every combination you can think of. At times we have had johnson and brayton at end with peppers at OLB. Way back in the day when Al Wallace was here he would play OLB at certain times.

The 4-3 and 3-4 are alot more complex and versatile than people think. No team just sticks to one scheme. When a tv announcer points out how well the pats or ravens defense is and shows their interesting formations, it might lead one to believe that they are the only ones doing it (and because they are doing it they are winning). Really, all teams do it, but only a few execute well enough to get attention for it.

Most of our problems last year were with the other two parts of the puzzle, execution and coaching. We had a lack of interior pass rush combined with a man who decided he'd just let fitzgerald be covered by anybody. No matter what defense we run we will not get back to the big game if those two factors don't improve.

[dimbee]

We already do. We don't run what I would call a "hybrid", but we do move players around in the ways that others in this topic have described.

Peppers, brayton, and Johnson have all been stand up rushers and I have all had some experience in coverage in the flats and even the 2nd level with peppers and johnson.

It's usually fox's strategy as he is always trying to force the turnover and D-lineman dropping into coverage is tricky for most QBs to assess quickly which can lead to throwing to a guy you didn't even know was there.

I think a lot of people on here see the 3-4 and 4-3 in a far too simple way. the scheme is rarley the cause of our problems, it's usually execution. Most people who want us to switch don't seem to realize that we already use packages that fit their words exactly.

I don't know that you can so easily equate DE's dropping into coverage or in a zone blitz package to playing a 3-4 Defense. That's just my opinion, of course

[SorthNarolina]

I don't know that you can so easily equate DE's dropping into coverage or in a zone blitz package to playing a 3-4 Defense. That's just my opinion, of course

I agree, what I'm trying to say is what most people mention when discussing what would happen in a 3-4(and how we use players) are things we already do and the 4-3 that we run isn't nearly as rigid as they think it is.

I was more comparing what we do currently to the percieved idea of the Panthers running the 3-4 that many people have expressed in the past...yah know what I mean?

[dimbee]

I agree, what I'm trying to say is what most people mention when discussing what would happen in a 3-4(and how we use players) are things we already do and the 4-3 that we run isn't nearly as rigid as they think it is.

I was more comparing what we do currently to the percieved idea of the Panthers running the 3-4 that many people have expressed in the past...yah know what I mean?

Gotcha.

Honestly, as far as the Panthers running a 3-4ish Hybrid, I wouldn't worry as much about DE performance as I would about DT performance

[thefuzz]

Yeah, if it were permanent, I agree wholeheartedly. I would want a coach on the staff who had experience with it.The only time I ever recall a DC who never coached the 3-4 transitioning to it was Zimmer in Dallas in 2004. And he had a 3-4 defensive HC in Parcells.

I do prefer the 3-4 to the 4-3 though.

Rivera in SD, but he trained under Cottrell for a year and a half...

They are very different to run, and not every DC out there is smart enough to grasp both.

[rayzor]

just out of curiosity, have any of the defensive position coaches coached in a 3-4 before?

by the way...i'm not endorsing this. i'm just curious. any defense can be suffocating and lethal if it has the right personnel and management.

[Snake]

We aren't going about it "wrong" because fox is not trying to run a "hybrid" defense. He's running a base 4-3. What you see are different formations, packages, and plays out of this base defense. And when we drop peppers we certainly have other guys rushing.

I also wouldn't call the 4-3 predictable. Any base defense has so many variants it's impossible to call it predictable. However, the man holding the clipboard might be.

I've seen some plays when we have 7 men on the LOS and I couldn't tell who was coming. If the HB comes out of the backfield brayton would take him and diggs would blitz...just about every combination you can think of. At times we have had johnson and brayton at end with peppers at OLB. Way back in the day when Al Wallace was here he would play OLB at certain times.

The 4-3 and 3-4 are alot more complex and versatile than people think. No team just sticks to one scheme. When a tv announcer points out how well the pats or ravens defense is and shows their interesting formations, it might lead one to believe that they are the only ones doing it (and because they are doing it they are winning). Really, all teams do it, but only a few execute well enough to get attention for it.

Most of our problems last year were with the other two parts of the puzzle, execution and coaching. We had a lack of interior pass rush combined with a man who decided he'd just let fitzgerald be covered by anybody. No matter what defense we run we will not get back to the big game if those two factors don't improve.

I really agree with this.