Record under GM Marty Hurney by the numbers

[Carl Spackler]

As a fan of the Panthers, Bobcats, Red Sox and Dale Earnhardt Jr., this year has blown epic ass. Dale Jr.'s winless seventh-place season easily ranks as the best of all my miserable teams. Frustrating. Sometimes I feel like we're all attached to teams who fail. Maybe it's just me.

[Brooklyn Bully]

Yes, you play to win. This doesn't mean you fire everyone every time you lose. Not saying losing is good, or that it's ok, or that we shouldn't be upset about it. But I'm saying Hurney did a decent job of building the type of team Fox wanted for 8 years. That team got old, and for the last two years JR wasn't writing checks due to the impending lockout. Hurney is now trying to build the type of team Rivera wants. It's a little too early to say he's failed at that. That's not accepting losing, that's being reasonable. Ya'll wanna fire coaches and GMs faster than Dan Snyder and Al Davis combined.

I didn't say anything about Rivera. I just said this is a now or never sport. You put the best team together you possibly can each season. We've done very poorly at that since day one of this franchise.

[Raleighcat83]

I didn't say anything about Rivera. I just said this is a now or never sport. You put the best team together you possibly can each season. We've done very poorly at that since day one of this franchise.

Yes but you also make decisions at the margin, meaning you fire someone if you feel confident you can replace him with someone better. I don't feel that way about Hurney. We have a GM here who did pretty well with draft picks, all things considered, certainly is in the top half of the league in terms of drafting. In terms of free agents, his signings have had a lot to do with what the coach at that time wants and with how much the owner feels confident spending. Our TEs sucked until this year, but that's not because Hurney sucked at finding TEs, it's because Fox didn't put a priority on the position. Rivera came in, said "we wanna use the TE", and Hurney goes out and gets Shocky and Olsen. Hurney didn't decide not to spend any money in '09 and '10. When it comes to getting the right type of players to fit our scheme, he's been pretty good.

[X-Clown]

Green Bay hasn't either, curiously enough..

Charles woodson?

[Cyberjag]

Yes but you also make decisions at the margin, meaning you fire someone if you feel confident you can replace him with someone better. I don't feel that way about Hurney. We have a GM here who did pretty well with draft picks, all things considered, certainly is in the top half of the league in terms of drafting. In terms of free agents, his signings have had a lot to do with what the coach at that time wants and with how much the owner feels confident spending. Our TEs sucked until this year, but that's not because Hurney sucked at finding TEs, it's because Fox didn't put a priority on the position. Rivera came in, said "we wanna use the TE", and Hurney goes out and gets Shocky and Olsen. Hurney didn't decide not to spend any money in '09 and '10. When it comes to getting the right type of players to fit our scheme, he's been pretty good.

Great post.

I would add that a big part of winning is building consistency, and you don't get that by replacing the coach every couple of years. That's why you don't fire Rivera either, IMHO. Instead, we just have to hope like hell that he learns from his mistakes, and gets a feel for the team he wants, and turns out to be as good as the guy in his press conferences.

Murphy, on the other hand...

[frash.exe]

At least Brayton was gotten on the cheap. :)

you know if you don't have a rebuttal to give you don't have to shoehorn non-answers, this isn't a post-game press conference from 2006-2010

And aside from Rogers, apparently the Panthers weren't interested in anyone else they didn't or couldn't sign either. I can't think of a single instance where someone signed with another team and Hurney said "Man, we really wanted that guy." But I'm sure that's happened a lot, maybe you can give me a few examples.

lol why are you getting so snarky and bringing up red herrings when I'm pointing out a basic flaw that makes your argument useless? As a matter of fact, instead of me doing painstaking research to find "examples" you're looking for which is irrelevant why don't you do some research to prove you're not building a straw man with that philly comment?

The beat writers reported that the Panthers were interested in Rogers, for what that's worth. But Carolina hasn't been a big landing spot for high profile free agents since Ken Lucas. Green Bay hasn't either, curiously enough...

Yea I forgot to understand the part where SF has been this FA hotspot recently, maybe because it isn't, and though Harbaugh chose there to coach over Miami and some other suitors it was for the most part because he could throw a rock from his backyard and hit candlestick park.

As for Green Bay, maybe they don't need to bring in many FAs because they actually don't piss away 2nd round picks to trade for QB/WR converts and invest them in people they're looking to start for them. Ted Thompson trades 2nd round picks to New England for Clay Matthews. Marty Hurney trades 2nd round picks to New England for ....Armanti Edwards. It's trades like these and bad personnel decisions that is part of the reason this team is in the position it is in today. That's not to say Hurney doesn't have redeeming qualities because I think this year has shown me he can make good moves, but he is accountable for part of the mess this team is in right now.

[mav1234]

he is accountable, but the reality is that many of the parts he is responsible for he did largely at the direction of JR I believe.

AE was an awful trade though.

[frash.exe]

he is accountable, but the reality is that the parts he is responsible for he did largely at the direction of JR I believe.

in a general sense, yes, and I don't blame Hurney for not firing Fox sooner because it was probably over his head and he couldn't do anything about it, but I seriously doubt JR told Hurney "hey you, trade our 2010 first round pick to SF to get this 6'1'' seminole and plug him in at 4-3 DE"

[Cyberjag]

you know if you don't have a rebuttal to give you don't have to shoehorn non-answers, this isn't a post-game press conference from 2006-2010

lol why are you getting so snarky and bringing up red herrings when I'm pointing out a basic flaw that makes your argument useless? As a matter of fact, instead of me doing painstaking research to find "examples" you're looking for which is irrelevant why don't you do some research to prove you're not building a straw man with that philly comment?

Yea I forgot to understand the part where SF has been this FA hotspot recently, maybe because it isn't, and though Harbaugh chose there to coach over Miami and some other suitors it was for the most part because he could throw a rock from his backyard and hit candlestick park.

As for Green Bay, maybe they don't need to bring in many FAs because they actually don't piss away 2nd round picks to trade for QB/WR converts and invest them in people they're looking to start for them. Ted Thompson trades 2nd round picks to New England for Clay Matthews. Marty Hurney trades 2nd round picks to New England for ....Armanti Edwards. It's trades like these and bad personnel decisions that is part of the reason this team is in the position it is in today. That's not to say Hurney doesn't have redeeming qualities because I think this year has shown me he can make good moves, but he is accountable for part of the mess this team is in right now.

What are you looking for here? You really seem to take my posts personal. I'm sorry you find me so disagreeable, and would like to help you by providing this handy link. Click it, type my name, hit the save button, and you never have to worry about being upset by one of my posts again. :)

Brayton was a decent FA, gotten cheap, who was useful enough to start opposite Peppers until Johnson developed. He's the exact profile of free agent we've gotten since Lucas, who if memory serves was the last high profile FA we signed. I could be wrong about that, BTW, you could consider KJ one (I don't), or you might think Lucas wasn't. Point is, we try to build through the draft like several other teams and don't sign FAs almost as a rule.

This year we got Shockey and Edwards, and traded for Olsen. We didn't get anyone else, although it was reported that we were interested in Rogers, Moss, and Cofield. I don't know what the truth is, I doubt anyone outside the FO does. I don't know why some people want to sign with us, and I don't know why they go elsewhere. I'm sure that if I tried, I could come up with reasons why it's all Hurney's fault, or Fox's, or Richardson's, or anyone's. But in the end, all I know is that Hurney has done a good job at managing the cap, and evidence suggests that his boss is happy with the job he's done overall. The boss knows more about football than I do, so I'm going to take that for what it is.

Sorry you feel differently.

[maddog]

Yes, you play to win. This doesn't mean you fire everyone every time you lose. Not saying losing is good, or that it's ok, or that we shouldn't be upset about it. But I'm saying Hurney did a decent job of building the type of team Fox wanted for 8 years. That team got old, and for the last two years JR wasn't writing checks due to the impending lockout. Hurney is now trying to build the type of team Rivera wants. It's a little too early to say he's failed at that. That's not accepting losing, that's being reasonable. Ya'll wanna fire coaches and GMs faster than Dan Snyder and Al Davis combined.

Umm if building the team Rivera wants consists of bringing in scrubs from the Chargers faster than a rapid refund everytime one of them gets cut, I say no thank you! When Rivera was brought in it was mentioned he loved building around the draft. That's fine and all but wouldn't it make things easier if you aren't building around practice squad players you brought in? We have some good offensive weapons on this team, Hurney has failed at complimenting them.

[mav1234]

in a general sense, yes, and I don't blame Hurney for not firing Fox sooner because it was probably over his head and he couldn't do anything about it, but I seriously doubt JR told Hurney "hey you, trade our 2010 first round pick to SF to get this 6'1'' seminole and plug him in at 4-3 DE"

When JR called me over an email I wrote, I actually asked JR about that, and he told me that he told Hurney and Fox to win now in 2008 and let them try again in 2009, and to make whatever decisions it would take to do so. But I also think that after 2008, Fox was less involved in personnel, so... Interpret that how you want.

edit: I do think Hurney deserves some of the blame for those moves (uhm, like all of it) but the reason he won't get fired for them is because of the circumstances involved.

I think he was basically given a blank slate and told to build the team with Rivera.

[frash.exe]

What are you looking for here? You really seem to take my posts personal. I'm sorry you find me so disagreeable, and would like to help you by providing this handy link. Click it, type my name, hit the save button, and you never have to worry about being upset by one of my posts again. :)

no, i'd much rather just get you to answer the question than stop dodging it and change the subject, than put you on ignore, which you constantly resort to every discussion we have when you don't have answers left. why did you feel the philly comment was appropriate?

Brayton was a decent FA, gotten cheap, who was useful enough to start opposite Peppers until Johnson developed. He's the exact profile of free agent we've gotten since Lucas, who if memory serves was the last high profile FA we signed. I could be wrong about that, BTW, you could consider KJ one (I don't), or you might think Lucas wasn't.

i'm not going back past 5 years. a five year window is a lot to have not signed anyone more significant from another team. and brayton is a great option to start if all you want to do is stop the run and not rush the passer.

Point is, we try to build through the draft like several other teams and don't sign FAs almost as a rule.

Pro tip: it's a good idea then if you want to build through the draft to invest your higher picks on people that have a decent chance to be a starter relative to the round they're drafted in than tweener players that don't project smoothly to a specific position in the pros.

This year we got Shockey and Edwards, and traded for Olsen. We didn't get anyone else, although it was reported that we were interested in Rogers, Moss, and Cofield. I don't know what the truth is, I doubt anyone outside the FO does. I don't know why some people want to sign with us, and I don't know why they go elsewhere. I'm sure that if I tried, I could come up with reasons why it's all Hurney's fault, or Fox's, or Richardson's, or anyone's.

wake up, we live in the information age. news is broken through sources that can give you a knowledge base of what is going on. don't worry, you won't look like an idiot if you criticize the professionals or whoever is in charge, as long as you can rationally break it down.

But in the end, all I know is that Hurney has done a good job at managing the cap, and evidence suggests that his boss is happy with the job he's done overall. The boss knows more about football than I do, so I'm going to take that for what it is.

napoleon is always right

[bleys]

When JR called me over an email I wrote, I actually asked JR about that, and he told me that he told Hurney and Fox to win now in 2008 and let them try again in 2009, and to make whatever decisions it would take to do so. But I also think that after 2008, Fox was less involved in personnel, so... Interpret that how you want.

edit: I do think Hurney deserves some of the blame for those moves (uhm, like all of it) but the reason he won't get fired for them is because of the circumstances involved.

I think he was basically given a blank slate and told to build the team with Rivera.

exactly.. it's evident those trades were in an attempt to save Fox's job.. You can blame Hurney, but Fox was very much apart of those decisions.. he was the coach and he was drafting players that fit his system.. Hurney was definitely apart of that, but I don't feel he's to blame for all or even majority of it.

except for AE.. clearly Fox wasn't involved in the 2010 draft.. aside from AE, that was a good draft though..

[frash.exe]

When JR called me over an email I wrote, I actually asked JR about that, and he told me that he told Hurney and Fox to win now in 2008 and let them try again in 2009, and to make whatever decisions it would take to do so. But I also think that after 2008, Fox was less involved in personnel, so... Interpret that how you want.

edit: I do think Hurney deserves some of the blame for those moves (uhm, like all of it) but the reason he won't get fired for them is because of the circumstances involved.

I think he was basically given a blank slate and told to build the team with Rivera.

at this point I don't want him fired either, I would just like to see our personnel philosophy adjusted slightly. You don't have to break the bank to bring in good players, although every once in a while, making a big signing is a good idea.