Could Brockers overtake Claiborne as the top D prospect in the draft?

[Cat'sGrowl]

It's very possible. It's no secret that DT is arguably the second most important position on the football field behind QB. Having a strong DT provides support at every level of the defense. It allows your LB's to roam free-while seemingly more important in our case-shielding them from injuries. It free's up your DE's on the outskirts, allowing them to rush the passer, which in turn assists your Secondary.

That said, it's also no secret that Brockers if gifted athletically, and one can assume he'll continue to raise his stock throughout the combine and Pro Day.

With so many teams looking the improve their pass rush, which is probably the second most important facet of a team in today's NFL behind your own passing attack, is it so far-fetched to think Brockers could escalate himself to be the top D prospect in the draft? Certainly not, especially after watching the Giant's win the the SB on the strength of Eli's arm and the intensity of their DL.

It get's even worse if Still continues to fall and fall. Let's look at the teams ahead of the Panthers, and see what the likelihood is that they could nab Brockers before the Cats had a chance to.

Indy- Colts will not. 0%

St. Louis.- Very tricky spot here, as they've openly stated they'd like to move down. At the 2 spot, there is a < 10% chance they draft Brockers, but that number skyrockets the farther down they move should they manage to pull off a trade.

Minny- Also tricky. Minnesota's DL was aging last I checked (admittedly not very recently), and has been a prized asset to their team for some time. If Brockers soars, the chances they take him if he is the top D prospect available isn't bad. Sadly I need to edit this in, but it's no secret Minny's pass D is bad. That said-If you have a CB and DT with the same grade, it's just good football smarts that you take the DT. The position is just more important. So-40%

Cleveland-This is tricky, as it is possibly tied in to what happens with St. Louis. Cleveland's pass defense was, to my surprise and probably yours-the second best in the NFL last year. Their defensive line however, and more specifically their run defense was turrible, just turrible. It was 30th last year, worse than ours. Can you name one player on Cleveland's defensive line? No? Neither can I, and I just checked their depth chart. The fact that Cleveland seems to be looking offense here could be our saving grace. 50%

Tampa Bay- Doubtful. But it is Tampa so you never can tell. 3%

Washington-Another team linked to the St. Louis possible trade, and also, rumored to have interest in Peyton. They are a huge wildcard giving these situations, and very difficult to gauge. Brockers at 6 is right about in his estimated range in this thread, and Washington's D last year finished 12th in pass defense and 18th in run defense. I'd say there chances with a new QB are about 65% and without, 45%.

Jacksonville. Offensive-minded HC. Terrible O last year. But still not inconceivable to think they could take Brockers at 7. 50%

Possibly Miami. Really depends on what happens with Solilai. If he goes, I'd say there is about a 70% chance. If he doesn't, 38% or so. Good news is, if Solilai did leave-he'd certainly arouse the interest of the FO.

So that's just something to think about. Great DT's are becoming more and more important in this league-and more and more rare. Brockers clearly has the ability to become a great one, and with a strong performance on the path to the draft, it should keep the FO on their toes searching for someone else as an alternative, should Brockers really be their number one target.

The big question is...If Brockers rises..? Who falls?

Claiborne? Possibly. It's no secret that I've never been in love with Claiborne, but I do think he's the best CB prospect in the draft, and should be the pick if he's there with Brockers not on the board.

(Yes, I would possibly take Brockers over Claiborne given the choice between the two, simply because of the above stated importance of having a top-tier DL over a strong Secondary)

[Guest Bwood15]

No way. Claiborne has been a highly rated super star for a while. Brockers is an up and coming stud defensive linemen. Too many teams need a star CB rather than a high-ceiling defensive tackle.

[Cat'sGrowl]

No way. Claiborne has been a highly rated super star for a while. Brockers is an up and coming stud defensive linemen. Too many teams need a star CB rather than a high-ceiling defensive tackle.

Point them out.

Edit: And by point them out, I mean the teams I didn't already address.

[rayzor]

given a choice between brockers and claiborne i'd take claiborne.

if kalil, claiborne, or blackmon were available i'd take them ahead of brockers.

coin flip between brockers and reiff.

[Cat'sGrowl]

given a choice between brockers and claiborne i'd take claiborne.

if kalil, claiborne, or blackmon were available i'd take them ahead of brockers.

coin flip between brockers and reiff.

Kalil is as overrated as one can be. Blackmon isn't a lock to even be a capable NFL receiver, so there is no sense taking a risk at a non-position of need, and Reiff is just Reiff.

Claiborne is the only one that really warrants any argument. A strong DL is just too important in today's NFL.

[d-run]

Man this place is going to go crazy if we don't draft Brockers. Personally, I would love to have Brockers, Claiborne, Blackmon or Reiff. The only way one of those don't make it to use is if Richardson falls or we get the 9 and there isn't a surprise pick.

I could see us getting the 9 with Richardson being BPA. In that case I would try to trade back. If that failed I would just take Jenkins.

[Guest Bwood15]

Point them out.

St. Louis. Even at #2 they could take Clairborne. Can you even name their starting corners? I know for a fact St. Louis fans would love to have a CB of Mo's caliber. And especially if they were to trade back with the skins at #6 and land him.

Minnesota. Has a huge need on the o-line, but if Kalil is gone before then, Claiborne becomes a very realistic option. Their secondary is among the worst in the league.

Tampa Bay. Fans on the draft board I go on frequently claim that there is no way in hell Claiborne gets passed them. Barber is in his last season and they have nobody else besides him.

Washington. Can you name the CB who plays opposite of DeAngelo Hall without looking it up? They need a corner just as badly as we do unless they want to take another offensive linemen.

Jacksonville. The Jags fans claim they will take the best corner or wide receiver available. Which means if Mo slips past all the other teams I listed they will surely not pass up on such a talent.

*And one more fun fact. All of these teams have used their first round pick on a defensive linemen in the first round in the past 2 years except Minny. Who has absolutely no need to.*

[Cat'sGrowl]

St. Louis. Even at #2 they could take Clairborne. Can you even name their starting corners? I know for a fact St. Louis fans would love to have a CB of Mo's caliber. And especially if they were to trade back with the skins at #6 and land him.

Minnesota. Has a huge need on the o-line, but if Kalil is gone before then, Claiborne becomes a very realistic option. Their secondary is among the worst in the league.

Tampa Bay. Fans on the draft board I go on frequently claim that there is no way in hell Claiborne gets passed them. Barber is in his last season and they have nobody else besides him.

Washington. Can you name the CB who plays opposite of DeAngelo Hall without looking it up? They need a corner just as badly as we do unless they want to take another offensive linemen.

Jacksonville. The Jags fans claim they will take the best corner or wide receiver available. Which means if Mo slips past all the other teams I listed they will surely not pass up on such a talent.

Tampa is the only real option on that list, in the context of this thread where Brockers stock has risen to match or possibly even surpassed Claiborne, and only because they've spent so many picks on DL recently. Guess I didn't clarify that well enough (thought it was just obvious). The others I've already spoken of.

[Guest Bwood15]

Tampa is the only real option on that list, in the context of this thread where Brockers stock has risen to match or possibly even surpassed Claiborne, and only because they've spent so many picks on DL recently. Guess I didn't clarify that well enough (thought it was just obvious). The others I've already spoken of.

St. Louis just drafted Chris Long and Robert Quinn. Why would they draft another defensive linemen?

Washington Just drafted Kerrigan, DT is not among their needs as much as corner or offensive line is.

Minnesota has an established defensive line that doesn't really need another to add another young defensive linemen.

Jacksonville just drafted a defensive linemen in Tyson Alua, and they have a huge need at corner/receiver.

How could these teams not have Claiborne over Brockers on their big boards?

[SOJA]

my personal draft order which means absolutely poo is:

1-Kalil

2-Claiborne

3-Blackmon

4-Reiff

5-Brockers

6-Jenkins

7-Kirkpatrick

[Cat'sGrowl]

St. Louis just drafted Chris Long and Robert Quinn. Why would they draft another defensive linemen?

Washington Just drafted Kerrigan, DT is not among their needs as much as corner or offensive line is.

Minnesota has an established defensive line that doesn't really need another to add another young defensive linemen.

Jacksonville just drafted a defensive linemen in Tyson Alua, and they have a huge need at corner/receiver.

How could these teams not have Claiborne over Brockers on their big boards?

St. Louis didn't "just" take Chris Long. He's been around for quite some time. More importantly, neither play DT. Both are ends. Regardless of what this board thinks, DE and DT aren't the same position, and it's stupid to try and build a team on the notion that if you spend a few offseasons getting as many DE's as possible and hoping they are great on the outside and inside, and building a great DL that way.

Minnesota is a viable argument, but the interior of their line is "meh" not "established." As I've said, If Brockers and Claiborne are rated the same, you take the DT. Minnesota's pass defense is the only variable here, which is why I gave a 40% nod to Brockers. You seem to be picking and choosing parts of what I said an ignoring others.

Washington's pass defense was good last year, and once again, a DE=/=DT.

As for Jacksonville, I don't see how a receiver is relevant to the conversation at hand, and I've already addressed their other needs as well. You are listing teams that I've already discussed. I said 50%. If their board comes down to Brockers or Claiborne, equally rated, there is a fifty percent chance.

Edit: Alualu is countered by the fact that DT< CB, in regards to JAcksonville, I made that more cut and dry than I intended to.

[Riverboat Ron]

You raise a valid point. I feel like a team's top 5 pick is best spent on QB (if you need one), OT (If you want to protect an investment), and DE (Elite edge rush makes or breaks a defense). DT is tough to judge because a strictly space eater DT isn't worth a top 10 pick, while an Ndamukong Suh type of gap penetrator is a rare talent to find at all. Brockers seems to be between the two, pushing the pocket more than shooting a gap. Brockers has major potential to become a pocket collapsing DT while taking pressure off Charles Johnson for double teams. I think the biggest competition we'll have is decided on a coin toss in a few days. That being said, I'd take Coples over Brockers, but it wouldn't surprise me if you saw a scenario like this.

1)Colts- Andrew Luck QB/Stanford (Obvious need)

2)Redskins- Robert Griffin III QB/Baylor (Possible trade scenario for need)

3)Vikings- Matt Kalil OT/USC (Need and value)

4)Browns- Quinton Coples DE/UNC (more of a need than people realize)

5)Bucs- Riley Reiff OT/Iowa (OT is a major need and is a high value pos)

6)Rams- Morris Claiborne CB/LSU (Need, draft board value)

7)Jaguars- Justin Blackmon WR/OKST (Need, either OT/WR should be chosen)

8)CAR/MIA- Michael Brockers DT/LSU (Fits both teams needs, Dolphins will have to replace Soliai and are moving to a 4-3 defense)

I could also see a team trading up to the #7 pick to grab a QB like Tannehill or Osweiler, which would be a much better decision since it's tough to draft a WR in the top 10 unless he's an obvious freak coming out of college.

[Guest Bwood15]

St. Louis didn't "just" take Chris Long. He's been around for quite some time. More importantly, neither play DT. Both are ends. Regardless of what this board thinks, DE and DT aren't the same position, and it's stupid to try and build a team on the notion that if you spend a few offseasons getting as many DE's as possible and hoping they are great on the outside and inside, and building a great DL that way.

Minnesota is a viable argument, but the interior of their line is "meh" not "established." As I've said, If Brockers and Claiborne are rated the same, you take the DT. Minnesota's pass defense is the only variable here, which is why I gave a 40% nod to Brockers. You seem to be picking and choosing parts of what I said an ignoring others.

Washington's pass defense was good last year, and once again, a DE=/=DT.

As for Jacksonville, I don't see how a receiver is relevant to the conversation at hand, and I've already addressed their other needs as well. You are listing teams that I've already discussed. I said 50%. If their board comes down to Brockers or Claiborne, equally rated, there is a fifty percent chance.

Edit: Alualu is countered by the fact that DT< CB, in regards to JAcksonville, I made that more cut and dry than I intended to.

Listen, I'm just saying that there's no way Brockers is higher on the teams I listed's big boards than Claiborne. You guys are getting too hyped on this guys potential. Experienced, proven, highly talented corner back > Hyped up draft riser, with good size to add more muscle, and a high ceiling.

[rayzor]

Listen, I'm just saying that there's no way Brockers is higher on the teams I listed's big boards than Claiborne. You guys are getting too hyped on this guys potential. Experienced, proven, highly talented corner back > Hyped up draft riser, with good size to add more muscle, and a high ceiling.

how many people are you having this conversation with?

i'm only counting one.