Brockers vs Poe

[JawnyBlaze]

Agree to an extent.

The BP does show upper body strength (important to a DT). However, I see the more telling issue is how flat out unprepared for the combine that Brockers was.

He announces that he is not BP'ing or running....then he is...then he puts up terrible numbers.

Strikes me as a guy who did not prepare....thought he would be able to skate on that lack of preparation...got called on it...then was in no man's land.

Poe's great performance and Brockers' terrible performance is not a sole reason to draft or not draft either. But, both are results that will make FO's look much, much closer at them....but for different reasons.

Um...you even said it, he wasn't planning on participating..so of course he wasn't prepared to participate...

He probably only decided to participate because someone (agent, friend, NFL coach/gm) pressured him to and he showed poor judgement and caved. Every time I've heard him speak and everything I've read about him says he's passionate about the game and a very hard worker, I wouldn't take this as a reason to question his ethic.

And I'd say lower body strength is more important for a DT. It's more important for a DT to have good technique with his arms and hands than strength, and Brockers seems to have good arm and hand technique.

[Riverboat Ron]

Dareus

Ding ding. I actually saw one Memphis game last year, and Poe didn't really pop out to me. That being said, he was doubled all the time and on a team that only won two games with drastically less talent than most. Not saying he'll be as good as these guys, but bits and pieces of Ngata and Dareus seem to make up Poe whether it be strength or body shape.

[MadHatter]

Um...you even said it, he wasn't planning on participating..so of course he wasn't prepared to participate...

He probably only decided to participate because someone (agent, friend, NFL coach/gm) pressured him to and he showed poor judgement and caved. Every time I've heard him speak and everything I've read about him says he's passionate about the game and a very hard worker, I wouldn't take this as a reason to question his ethic.

And I'd say lower body strength is more important for a DT. It's more important for a DT to have good technique with his arms and hands than strength, and Brockers seems to have good arm and hand technique.

I think it is more that he wasn't planning on participating BECAUSE he was not prepared. He did not announce that he was not participating until right at the the combine.

There was NO OTHER good reason to not participate in those drills (other than injury).

this is not like the throwing drill where you are dependant on another player (WR that you have no chemistry with) to help make you look better.

Flat out, Brockers was not prepared and got caught at it.

[MadHatter]

Ding ding. I actually saw one Memphis game last year, and Poe didn't really pop out to me. That being said, he was doubled all the time and on a team that only won two games with drastically less talent than most. Not saying he'll be as good as these guys, but bits and pieces of Ngata and Dareus seem to make up Poe whether it be strength or body shape.

Both Brockers and Poe are projects. Neither are the polished, dominant player that will step in and transform our line. It is up to our FO and coaches to determine which is the right choice. After the due diligence they did on Cam (and flat out got it right when others were so wrong), I have faith they will get this one right as well.

[JawnyBlaze]

I think it is more that he wasn't planning on participating BECAUSE he was not prepared. He did not announce that he was not participating until right at the the combine.

There was NO OTHER good reason to not participate in those drills (other than injury).

this is not like the throwing drill where you are dependant on another player (WR that you have no chemistry with) to help make you look better.

That's just baseless speculation, but you're certainly entitled to it :) There's no way for you to know his reasons for doing or not doing something.

Flat out, Brockers was not prepared and got caught at it.

Again, completely baseless speculation worded as a fact. I don't think this is being fair. Every year prospects choose to pass on the 40s/bench/etc at the combine and plan for using their Pro Day instead. Doesn't mean they are trying to skate by.

[JawnyBlaze]

Both Brockers and Poe are projects. Neither are the polished, dominant player that will step in and transform our line. It is up to our FO and coaches to determine which is the right choice. After the due diligence they did on Cam (and flat out got it right when others were so wrong), I have faith they will get this one right as well.

I actually think either will step in and transform our line. Right now our line is too soft, either one of these guys will be an immediate and drastic upgrade and will add some much needed toughness to the line.

[Riverboat Ron]

Both Brockers and Poe are projects. Neither are the polished, dominant player that will step in and transform our line. It is up to our FO and coaches to determine which is the right choice. After the due diligence they did on Cam (and flat out got it right when others were so wrong), I have faith they will get this one right as well.

I believe the same thing to an extent. I think both have high potential but we need to get a clearer picture before we jump on either's boat. I do believe either could step in an be better than what we have at the moment. I think Brockers has to prove he can get stronger before I would commit to him, guy has a good frame, but needs to improve strength badly. I'm sure Hurney will have lots of tape on Poe that I haven't seen, and he'll judge if Poe played hard and couldn't overcome the talent around him. Either way, I don't see either as a sack machine. Some compare Brockers to Richard Seymour, and I see Poe as a Dareus-Ngata. I'm looking forward to Brockers pro day to see if he can put up a more respectable number of bench reps. For Poe, I wonder how much of his lack of production was due to the team's talent and if coaching could really help him to reach his potential.

[MadHatter]

That's just baseless speculation, but you're certainly entitled to it :) There's no way for you to know his reasons for doing or not doing something.

Again, completely baseless speculation worded as a fact. I don't think this is being fair. Every year prospects choose to pass on the 40s/bench/etc at the combine and plan for using their Pro Day instead. Doesn't mean they are trying to skate by.

It is TOTALLY speculation....which is why I said "I think....". I never said ANYWHERE that I know why he made the decision....just what the facts looked like to me.

However, I see that you believe your OPINION on the matter is more than speculation....which it is not.

As for the "not prepared and got caught"...that is PURE fact. He was NOT prepared for the combine. That situation may have very well been to the fact that he was not prepared because he was not planning on participating (as you speculate)...or that he was not prepared and thus decided not to participate (as I speculate). However, the fact is that we was NOT prepared. If he WERE prepared and put up that performance, it is an even bigger issue.

Either way, I am betting that teams will take another long hard look at this and form their own decisions. I would love to have been a fly on the wall at some of the interviews with him. I am sure that this topic was brought up numerous times....and would love to hear how he handled it.

Like I said....it makes me nervous. But in no way should this (regardless of either of our speculation as to why) be a sole reason to draft or not draft a guy.

[carpanfan96]

I actually think either will step in and transform our line. Right now our line is too soft, either one of these guys will be an immediate and drastic upgrade and will add some much needed toughness to the line.

The reason the line looked soft is technique and Brockers showed tendencies to get upright and be pushed out of the play (sound familiar???) and it would happen more at the NFL level.

Neither one of these guys are going to step in and transform a line, they need time to develop.

[DaCityKats]

best way to develop is by playing time on the field. i would take either guy at this point.

[Toundra]

I would love to see Poe with a Panthers uniform but if we are selecting a CB with the first round, i woud gladly use a 5/6th rounders on Jaye Howard.

Am i the only one impressed by this kid?

[prowler2k8]

I honestly don't know why there is so much hate for Poe.

So many on here act as if we're stating we'd only want Poe.

Both Brockers and Poe have high potential.

Dispite that many think our last year DT's were wasted picks, they weren't.

The Panthers won't draft another dt simply to throw another body at the position. Adding a blue chip player though, that i can see them doing.

Of the two, ya gotta love Poe's size, burst, strength, and ability.

He also fits the dt we need the most. He can play in both the 34 and the 43...which rivera wants to play both.

Both will take time to develop.

The good news is either Brockers or Poe will be part of a solid rotation with the players we already have. Fua and McClain will have a year of NFL experience and we'll have a season vet in Edwards back from IR. Not a bad situation for a rookie.

BTW - I'm with you on Poe, PC. If he's coachable and has a solid work ethic (and based on his combine performance that doesn't appear to be a problem), he could be a monster on our DL. I never was too enamored with Brockers - s/h stayed in school at least another year IMO and LSU players haven't exactly lit it up in the NFL.

[Montsta]

So which of our current guys is shittier? McClain or Fua?

[Matthias]

The thing about Poe is this. He is only known for his workouts. Give me one good highlight vid you've seen on Poe's play, because I'm still searching. Months ago, the only true highlight of Poe, was him lifting weights. (Just like someone mentioned Jarron Gilbert's major highlight was him jumping out of a pool):D

So there's no question Poe is fit an athletic for a guy his size. Yet between the guy who's produced and the guy who can workout, you have to choose Brockers.