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Top QBs: Last 16 years

frash.exe

By frash.exe,
in Carolina Panthers

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

Posted
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Top ten leaders in both passing yards and passer rating, from 1993-2008.

http://thebrickcitypanther.blogspot.com/2009/05/best-qbs-last-16-years.html

a few notes...

-Jake Delhomme only shows up once, under 2004 passing yards.

-UDFA QBs, Fox and Hurney's favorite flavor, are extremely scarce compared to anything else. Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, Tony Romo and Jeff Garcia are the only real notables.

-First rounders comprise probably around 50% of top rankings in general. Out of any round, the first produces more top QBs than anything else.

-Some QBs I labeled "UD" actually started careers in the other leagues. Definitely different circumstances. Bobby Hebert was considered among the best USFL QBs before he started a career in the NFL after that league folded. Warron Moon played in the CFL and became a success there before he was ever considered to play QB by an NFL team. Erik Kramer also had a successful career in the CFL before he started games in the NFL.

-Other QBs I labeled "UD" also built up playing experience in NFL Europe (i.e. our own Jakey, Kurt Warner). Believe it or not these other avenues of professional football only helped develop them. Only Dave Kreig, Tony Romo, and i may or may not be missing one other guy earned success in the league under the circumstances of which every UDFA QB will have to face today. ...so that's 2 guys in the last 16 years. You do the math and see how good our chances are of replacing Jake with just a UDFA.

-Also I noticed out of the 16 years, only 3 seasons featured a superbowl winning team without a QB who boasted a top ten passer rating in the regular season (2008, 2007, 2000). Jake Delhomme has never made the top ten in passer rating in a regular season.

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R0CKnR0LLA Experienced

R0CKnR0LLA

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Sure, I'd love for us to get an elite QB, and using a 1st round pick is one way to go, but it's also risky as hell. For every Peyton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf and 10 other guys that just end up being mediocre. There are teams that use 1st rounder after 1st rounder on QBs and still don't have one worth a damn.

Honestly, I like our strategy better. 1st rounders on OTs, RBs and defense. Those are the guys that come in and make an impact right away and are relatively safer picks.

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Dingo_ate_Babies Collaborator

Dingo_ate_Babies

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Sure, I'd love for us to get an elite QB, and using a 1st round pick is one way to go, but it's also risky as hell. For every Peyton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf and 10 other guys that just end up being mediocre. There are teams that use 1st rounder after 1st rounder on QBs and still don't have one worth a damn.

Honestly, I like our strategy better. 1st rounders on OTs, RBs and defense. Those are the guys that come in and make an impact right away and are relatively safer picks.

Drafting a 1st round QB is a high risk, high reward investment but eventually you've gotta to take a chance on one to take your team to the next level.

You've got to have a top tier Qb to win the big one (few exceptions). If you look at the winners of the last 4 superbowls, they all had 1st round drafted Qbs.

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R0CKnR0LLA Experienced

R0CKnR0LLA

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Drafting a 1st round QB is a high risk, high reward investment but eventually you've gotta to take a chance on one to take your team to the next level.

I completely disagree for a couple reasons. First off, that list points out that roughly 50% of the elite QBs are not drafted round one.

The other point being, that no matter what round (or UDFA) you get your QB, you don't necessarily need an elite QB to win. Building the team around an elite QB is a legit strategy, but a strong defense and running game can win you alot of games as well. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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Top ten leaders in both passing yards and passer rating, from 1993-2008.

http://thebrickcitypanther.blogspot.com/2009/05/best-qbs-last-16-years.html

a few notes...

-Jake Delhomme only shows up once, under 2004 passing yards.

-UDFA QBs, Fox and Hurney's favorite flavor, are extremely scarce compared to anything else. Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, Trent Green, Tony Romo and Jeff Garcia are the only real notables.

-First rounders comprise probably around 50% of top rankings in general. Out of any round, the first produces more top QBs than anything else.

-Some QBs I labeled "UD" actually started careers in the other leagues. Definitely different circumstances. Bobby Hebert was considered among the best USFL QBs before he started a career in the NFL after that league folded. Warron Moon played in the CFL and became a success there before he was ever considered to play QB by an NFL team. Erik Kramer also had a successful career in the CFL before he started games in the NFL.

-Other QBs I labeled "UD" also built up playing experience in NFL Europe (i.e. our own Jakey, Kurt Warner). Believe it or not these other avenues of professional football only helped develop them. Only Dave Kreig, Tony Romo, and i may or may not be missing one other guy earned success in the league under the circumstances of which every UDFA QB will have to face today. ...so that's 2 guys in the last 16 years. You do the math and see how good our chances are of replacing Jake with just a UDFA.

-Also I noticed out of the 16 years, only 3 seasons featured a superbowl winning team without a QB who boasted a top ten passer rating in the regular season (2008, 2007, 2000). Jake Delhomme has never made the top ten in passer rating in a regular season.

I can see using passer rating since that is more of a quality stat. But total passing yards has little to do with determining how well a quarterback is playing just how many times the team throws the ball

So if we concentrate on passer rating it is interesting to note that in 2 out of the four past Superbowls, the winning quarterback was not in the top ten in passer rating. That includes Roethlesberger and Eli Manning So it begs the question as to whether you need a quarterback in the top 10 of passer ratings to get to the Superbowl. In 2003 we got there and Jake wasn't in the top 10 and Brady barely made it coming in at 10.

I think that you are right in that UDFAs have a much lower chance of being a starter let alone a Super Bowl winner. And that leagues like the NFL Europe were a real boon to guys like Jake and Warner who needed to develop over time in order to make it to the NFL. I don't necessarily agree that UDFAs can't be a starter or have the talent to win a Superbowl. But they are much less likely to stick around in the league long enough to be developed in the first place. Since the team has little money and no draft picks tied up in them, they are less likely to stick with them or feel obligated to develop them. Guys who are high draft picks on the other hand are much more likely to stick around and have an opportunity to develop since teams hate to waste that guaranteed money and a high draft pick by letting him go early. Guys like David Carr hang around even though they largely suck because they were a first rounder and people keep assumng they must have talent. UDFAs on the other hand have to produce pretty soon or they get replaced by a draft pick guy pretty fast.

With that said, since we already have Matt Moore and have decided to develop him, he has just as good a chance of being the next Delhomme and leading us than if we drafted a high draft pick. His talent surely isn't that much less than a guy who gets picked in the 6th or 7th round that it dooms him to failure.

If your point is that we won't find a suitable replacement until we draft a quarterback high in the draft, I am not sure that is true. The two times we have had a first rounder as quarterback (not counting Vinnie who was too old) we haven't exactly been better off than we were with a guy like Moore.

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Dingo_ate_Babies Collaborator

Dingo_ate_Babies

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I completely disagree for a couple reasons. First off, that list points out that roughly 50% of the elite QBs are not drafted round one.

The other point being, that no matter what round (or UDFA) you get your QB, you don't necessarily need an elite QB to win. Building the team around an elite QB is a legit strategy, but a strong defense and running game can win you alot of games as well. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Your right about not needing an elite Qb, but relying on undrafted free agents and other teams cast-offs (what we've been doing) isn't the way to do it either. We should atleast make some kind of mid to late round investment on a guy and try to develop him. Like Matt Cassel.

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Nu Guns Newbie

Nu Guns

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We should have never obtained Vinnie...no disrespect to him.

The call to obtain him I still dont get. We already had back ups on the bench who were more familar with our system. What was the point of having them? That was a prefect time to see what we had and to groom.

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R0CKnR0LLA Experienced

R0CKnR0LLA

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Your right about not needing an elite Qb, but relying on undrafted free agents and other teams cast-offs (what we've been doing) isn't the way to do it either. We should atleast make some kind of mid to late round investment on a guy and try to develop him. Like Matt Cassel.

I wouldn't mind seeing us bump QB a bit higher on the priority list, that's for sure. Especially with Jake getting closer towards the end of his career. I have faith in our ability to find a good QB in the draft, now our ability to develop that QB is a whole different story. IMO, Carolina is one of the worst teams at developing QB talent. Every QB we've had during Fox's tenure has stayed the same or gotten worse after joining our team.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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I wouldn't mind seeing us bump QB a bit higher on the priority list, that's for sure. Especially with Jake getting closer towards the end of his career. Now I have alot of faith in our ability to find a good QB in the draft, now our ability to develop that QB is a whole different story. IMO, Carolina is one of the worst teams at developing QB talent. Every QB we've had under Fox's tenure has stayed the same or gotten worse after joining our team.

Your memory is pretty short. Moore is a perfect example of developing a guy to play in the NfL in a matter of weeks. He comes here without training camp and preseason, gets few if any reps until roughly 2 weeks before he actually starts and McCoy and Davidson work with him, pare down the playbook and manage the offense to give him a 2-1 record. While that doesn't mean he is a complete quarterback or even ready to start, they did a terrific job getting him ready. Now it is Scherer's turn and perhaps we should give him some time with Moore before we decide that we can't develop a quarterback over time. With the exception of Weinke, who stayed around long enough to even be developed?

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R0CKnR0LLA Experienced

R0CKnR0LLA

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How about a strong run game, solid defense and an great qb works for Pitt

More like a decent run game, good QB and the #1 overall defense in the league, but either way I see what you're getting at. I'd love to see us top out at every level, but it isn't always feasible. Especially when you're using 1st rounder after 1st rounder trying to find an elite QB, giving him a huge contract and praying he doesn't become the next David Carr.

That's really the biggest problem with a top pick QB. If he can't make it, you're not going to cut him in training camp. He's still going to be given playing experience and time to learn. No matter how bad, he'll probably start for 2 years, maybe 3... or 4... You end up with a guy that ensures your team will lose, but the FO has so much invested they are slow to make a change. And on top of that, he's eating up a huge chunk of salary cap that prevents you from improving the rest of the team. Sounds awesome, sign me up! :D

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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Your memory is pretty short. Moore is a perfect example of developing a guy to play in the NfL in a matter of weeks. He comes here without training camp and preseason, gets few if any reps until roughly 2 weeks before he actually starts and McCoy and Davidson work with him, pare down the playbook and manage the offense to give him a 2-1 record. While that doesn't mean he is a complete quarterback or even ready to start, they did a terrific job getting him ready. Now it is Scherer's turn and perhaps we should give him some time with Moore before we decide that we can't develop a quarterback over time. With the exception of Weinke, who stayed around long enough to even be developed?

Yeah thats ONE possible QB they've developed since 2002. Good job.

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