Don Gregory and the Scouting Department

[Panthro]

I think LaFell is going to be a good WR. Probably a poor mans Mushin Muhammed....that being said if we are going to be a passing team we should have given Stewart's contract to Vincent Jackson or traded for Brandon Marshall....

We also need a safety for peaks sake.

The blatant ignorance and complete overvaluing Hurney has for certain positions is mind boggling.

[TylerDurden]

Hurney is where the buck ultimately stops, for certain. And I actually agree that roster building overall is a problem, not just draftng.

But drafting is part of the problem, arguably a huge part given the team's philosophy. And good drafts are constructed from good scouting. I'm not sure we're getting that.

Perennial contenders are are built on the backs of great scouting departments. Is anyone ready to say that we have that right now?

I don't know what to say to that Scot. You have a point. It's hard for us to delineate between Gregory's weight in the decisions and Hurney's final say in them. Hard to pinpoint the blame on either, but I default to Hurney because he's the one pulling the trigger on moves that are costing us more assets (wasted picks, Delhomme extension, not getting anything back for Peppers, etc.).

And I can't put too much blame on Gregory because the first rounders have been great (minus Otah). So he's doing something right. But, the amount of wasted 2nd and 3rd rounders is troubling. Again, I'd have to know more of the dynamics in those situations before I could place the blame on Gregory.

[CRA]

I think LaFell is going to be a good WR. Probably a poor mans Mushin Muhammed....that being said if we are going to be a passing team we should have given Stewart's contract to Vincent Jackson or traded for Brandon Marshall....

We also need a safety for peaks sake.

The blatant ignorance and complete overvaluing Hurney has for certain positions is mind boggling.

Then we don't have a RB to compliment the Newton offense.....

But overall I agree with you

[Panthro]

We have Tolbert and Williams.

In fact I think Tolbert might be the most complete RB in this offense.

(My preference would have been not extending Williams to begin with)

[TylerDurden]

I think LaFell is going to be a good WR. Probably a poor mans Mushin Muhammed....that being said if we are going to be a passing team we should have given Stewart's contract to Vincent Jackson or traded for Brandon Marshall....

We also need a safety for peaks sake.

The blatant ignorance and complete overvaluing Hurney has for certain positions is mind boggling.

I don't have a problem with the Stew and Williams extensions b/c I think it all evens itself out as the contracts mature. But, it can be argued that the RB position isn't worth what it once was and the position is easily filled with cheaper options.

But, I completely agree that Hurney overvalues some positions over others. How long did it take for us to concentrate our efforts on shoring up the WR position outside of Smitty? From 04 to about 2010? I mean, he took a guy here and there, signed some scrubs, but he never made a concerted effort to bring in competition and make sure the position was taken care of until recently. And we kind of haphazardly fell into depth there (hit on Gettis, Lafell, Pilares, got a steal in the trade for Murphy, etc.).

Meanwhile, Safety has been neglected since Minter retired outside of stop-gaps (Chris Harris) and conversions projects (Godfrey, Martin). Godfrey has improved, but there are still issues there.

Cornerback is another position that is neglected. DT, more stop gaps... Yet, we continue to sign and draft guys at RB and LB every year.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

From our standpoint, it's impossible to tell if the scouting department is doing their job. Is Hurney making poor decisions even when given excellent scouting reports or is it a failure on both ends?

Simple solution, bring in a top end elite GM and let him evaluate the rest of the FO and decide if he wants to keep them or clean house.

[CRA]

We have Tolbert and Williams.

In fact I think Tolbert might be the most complete RB in this offense.

(My preference would have been not extending Williams to begin with)

You saw what Williams can do with the zone read....it prevents it from getting started. Chud as committed to that being a core concept for the Newton offense.

Tolbert? he should fit well in theory in those shotgun formations....maybe not zone read concepts.

Williams' talent is largely wasted in this offense.

[Frizzy350]

I think LaFell is going to be a good WR. Probably a poor mans Mushin Muhammed....that being said if we are going to be a passing team we should have given Stewart's contract to Vincent Jackson or traded for Brandon Marshall....

We also need a safety for peaks sake.

The blatant ignorance and complete overvaluing Hurney has for certain positions is mind boggling.

Can't totally agree with you here. VJax is not anywhere near worth the price tag and I think we'll see plenty out of both LaFell and murphy. Although Lafell coughed up that perfect ball resulting in everyone pointing at Cam's interception column.

Marshall is a total head case and will throw a tantrum if things don't go his way. His off field issues immediately pulled him from potentially coming here.

The only guys i could have possibly seen come here are Carr or Grimes, and those guys got overpaid as hell too.

[Frizzy350]

You saw what Williams can do with the zone read....it prevents it from getting started. Chud as committed to that being a core concept for the Newton offense.

Tolbert? he should fit well in theory in those shotgun formations....maybe not zone read concepts.

Williams' talent is largely wasted in this offense.

I didn't like that we started with the zone read plays, they take too long to develop. Using them for play action passes worked fine, but we should have used some standard strong and I form runs to keep the D in check.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't know what to say to that Scot. You have a point. It's hard for us to delineate between Gregory's weight in the decisions and Hurney's final say in them. Hard to pinpoint the blame on either, but I default to Hurney because he's the one pulling the trigger on moves that are costing us more assets (wasted picks, Delhomme extension, not getting anything back for Peppers, etc.).

And I can't put too much blame on Gregory because the first rounders have been great (minus Otah). So he's doing something right. But, the amount of wasted 2nd and 3rd rounders is troubling. Again, I'd have to know more of the dynamics in those situations before I could place the blame on Gregory.

I know it might sound oversimplified, but it's a lot easier to hit on first round picks than late rounders.

When we start looking at the possibility of entire drafts being wasted other than maybe a single pic, there's a problem somewhere.

Now, if you believe what we've heard previously from Gantt, Hurney essentially has the GM job for life if he so desires. If that's true, then discussions about what to do with him are pretty much a moot point.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Now, if you believe what we've heard previously from Gantt, Hurney essentially has the GM job for life if he so desires.

where did you see that? have a link?

[Mr. Scot]

where did you see that? have a link?

It was in a lot of old discussions around the time his contract expired, and that's a while back.

If he ever actually signed a new one, I didn't see it.

[KillerKat]

I know it might sound oversimplified, but it's a lot easier to hit on first round picks than late rounders.

When we start looking at the possibility of entire drafts being wasted other than maybe a single pic, there's a problem somewhere.

Now, if you believe what we've heard previously from Gantt, Hurney essentially has the GM job for life if he so desires. If that's true, then discussions about what to do with him are pretty much a moot point.

We changed scouting directors, coaches, players. The one constant is Hurney in all of this bs. As long as he is our GM we can only hope to be average at best. And if we so happen to have a winning season, don't expect that success to last long. 3 winning seasons out of 10? GTFO

[TylerDurden]

I know it might sound oversimplified, but it's a lot easier to hit on first round picks than late rounders.

When we start looking at the possibility of entire drafts being wasted other than maybe a single pic, there's a problem somewhere.

Now, if you believe what we've heard previously from Gantt, Hurney essentially has the GM job for life if he so desires. If that's true, then discussions about what to do with him are pretty much a moot point.

Agreed for the most part, BUT, it seems like we throw darts from in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, possibly the 4th. But, we've hit on a lot of late picks too. It just seems like we "stop caring" in the middle rounds, or at least take more risks.

Also, a testament to Gregory's ability is the amount of UDFAs we have brought in that contribute. So again, I put the onus on Hurney.